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Patch Chat with Playtest - Patch 6.5

RiotSkarnye West··1 votes·170,762 views

Hey all,

Welcome back to Patch Chat! We’re Riot’s Playtest Team, a group of high ranking League players whose job it is to play the hell out of things (lane tests, competitive testing, etc) and give actionable, objective feedback to designers.

Every two weeks (concurrent with the release of patch notes), we’re going to be hosting a discussion here on the state of balance on the current patch. Take this opportunity to ask us any questions about the state of the game because, as we said, it’s our job to analyze it from all angles.

Today, we’re here with Scott “Sickoscott” Hong, ex-professional jungler and top laner, S5 Challenger, and playtester to talk about the state of top lane and what it’s like to be a playtester at Riot.

In this patch, we have nerfs going through on Nautilus and Pantheon, two champions who have dominated top lane for two patches. On top of that, notorious lane bully Renekton is getting buffed. What do we expect the top lane landscape to look like going into patch 6.5?

_Nautilus and Pantheon both destroy other melee matchups in trades thanks to their superior threat range. On top of that, they have frequent windows to all-in squishy ranged champions. Even if they fall behind, they bring point-and-click CC for ganks. _

_I expect more passive champions with short melee range to become stronger, especially Rammus and Shen. While they have lower threat ranges, they take more time to ramp up. _

_Melee tanks who end up with decent damage in the late-game but still bring initiation and gank assistance shine in the current meta, but those two are the two likeliest standouts. _

_Graves and Quinn should also surface as bully laners. They have fallen in win rate in recent patches thanks to the all-in threats of champions like Pantheon or Nautilus, in part due to the point-and-click CC which nullifies their range advantage and ability to dodge skillshots with their move-blocks. With those two out of the way, these ranged champions should have more room to breathe and start abusing the other top laners who don’t have the luxury of not having skillshots. _

You’ve been playing League of Legends in Season 1; what has kept you interested so long? Do you have a favorite champion?

_I like playing champions who have a lot of room for skill expression, especially champions with “hidden” mechanics. Nidalee has so many tricks that you can play her in 1000 games and still do something better in the next game. _

You’ve been at Riot for around a year; what is your favorite thing about your job?

_I’m surrounded by passionate LoL fans. I get to play the game everyday and talk with my coworkers about anything League related, from the LCS to my terrible solo queue games. _

What do you find hardest about working in Playtest?

_Trying to stay impartial and not having your emotions get the better of you when you’re having a discussion with a teammate or a designer. Just because you hate playing against a champion doesn’t mean it needs a nerf; I try my hardest not to be biased. _

If you’d never discovered League of Legends, what would you be doing?

_I’d probably be teaching English in a foreign country. I enjoy teaching/coaching people who are eager to learn, whether it’s English or League. _

Do you have any questions about what it’s like to work as a Riot playtester? As usual, feel free to ask any questions about balance or what exactly our job is! We will be around for the next few hours and will try to answer as many questions as possible.

Adam "Afic" Cohen Ben “Cezium” Burkhardt Isaac “Azael” Cummings-Bentley Shawn “I Am The IRS” Currie Miles “Daydreamin” Hoard Scott “Sickoscott” Hong Mattias “Gentleman Gustaf” Lehman Nicholas “Drecker” Shapiro Nicholas “Nickwu” Smith Blake “Ex Shepherd” Soberanis Trevor “ThEntropist” Thernes

Link to Patch 6.5 Notes

360 Comments

ZachOfAllTrades13 votes

Hey guys! Just wondering if anyone wants to share their story on how they came to work for Riot as a Tester?

Thanks, from someone who wants to get there someday!

RiotSkarnye West56 votes

Hmmm...in 2011, I graduated college with a Linguistics degree, and no clue what I wanted to do with my life. I'd started playing League of Legends earlier that year, and had found I had a knack for figuring out what was strong (that is, I was good at math). I was working for a language test design company, and I was miserable at work.

I started writing a few articles on strategy, but nothing that really took off. I started a 5s team. Back then I was gold or something unimpressive, but I was convinced I was going to go pro. Really, I just didn't like my job and used League of Legends as an escape.

In the summer of 2012, I saw a posting on A Different View - a mathcrafting blog started by DiffTheEnder - looking for new writers. DiffTheEnder saw something in my writing and decided to bring me on as a contracted writer, and I started diving into mathematical analysis of things like "which AD items are strongest?" or "do Corki/Kog'Maw/Vayne actually need Last Whisper?"

After awhile, though, I realized there was only so much math to do, and that - once people figured out the optimal itemization - LoL would come down to strategy, not item choices. As such, I started covering the esports scene. By Season 2/3, I was watching every major tournament, and playing in Go4LoL whenever I could (still Gold). Back in the day, Reign of Gaming actually was pretty big, so I started getting recognized in game all the time, and that was pretty cool. I think that's when I started to think that maybe I could make a career of this if I just worked hard enough at it.

At some point I wrote an article on gender in League of Legends, and this guy from some website reached out to see if I wanted to write for them. I was super excited, but I never heard back from him.

In Season 3, I lost my job in language test design, and that was all the motivation to go all-in. I dropped almost everything else in my life. Before, I'd been a pretty social guy, definitely an introvert, but the type of person who loved to go to board game nights or play D&D or whatever. But from that day on, I realized what it meant to work for something. I was solo queuing maybe 12 hours a day and streaming most of it despite only having like 25 viewers. My 5s team had been me and 4 friends, but I ditched my friends when I realized that they weren't as driven as I was. I started a new team with 2 guys I knew from Idaho, and we started scouting for other players.

Like I said, I'd been pretty mediocre at the game, but suddenly it was like all the time I'd spent researching pro play had paid off. I cruised to Diamond in like a week, and Diamond 1 a few days after that. To pay the bills, I began writing more and more articles, coaching teams trying to break into the Challenger scene, and giving lessons on how to climb the ladder, as well as doing all sorts of freelance writing in the academic and corporate world.

In Season 4, a friend of mine noted that lolesports was looking for writers, and I applied - and was contracted - to write articles on professional play. At that point I had literally no income but writing articles. Before that point, I'd been making like $500 a month, and had been blowing through what savings I'd had leftover from my previous job. I don't think I should be talking about Riot's pay, but let's just say that it was significantly more than I was used to. I started spamming articles, writing sometimes 10-12 articles in a month. In less than a month, I'd gone from some guy who used to write freelance articles to the most prolific writer Riot had.

Amusingly, one of the other freelance writers working with me was Taylor Cocke, the same guy who had talked to me about writing for that website before. I applied for a contracted position as a Web Content Coordinator at Riot, and apparently I'd built up a pretty good reputation for the quality and content of writing I was churning out. After a long interview process, I ended up losing out on the job to Taylor, but my supervisor at Riot made another offer, for a remote contractor position running the streams and the online videos and still writing articles.

I took the offer, although I didn't really shine working remotely. When I'd been freelance, I could work at my own pace - 80 hours one week, 10 the next. I struggled working as a contractor, and I'm really surprised Riot didn't just fire me. I wasn't doing anything glaringly bad, but I was constantly making small mistakes. Worse, they were the same small mistakes again and again, and while I was learning and improving, it was quite slow. I've always been pretty good at most things I try, so I was pretty frustrated to be failing so consistently, and thought about quitting. My friend - working esports at Riot Berlin - told me I should move to Los Angeles and just start working onsite to see how that improved my experience.

It was just what I'd needed. I loved working out of an office and I began learning a lot. A bit of networking later and I met with the Manager of Playtest, and mentioned that I'd always been interested in Game Design. I went through two interviews, and started a month later.

The lesson I learned from all of this is that working in the video game industry is pretty much like working anywhere else. My job is still a lot of hard work, I need to keep consistent hours, and sometimes I have to work to get good at something that doesn't come naturally. This seems obvious, but it wasn't to me initially. I get up every morning ready to challenge myself and do something I wouldn't have been good enough to do a month ago.

Sometimes I regret having to wake up. Sometimes I dread having to bike to work. I keep hours that many might consider insane, and my friends have spent the last few years giving me shit for being so hard to schedule time with. But I'm never miserable to be at work, and that means the world to me.

TL;DR - didn't want to work language test design, wrote articles about the math of LoL, tried to go pro, failed to go pro, worked as a coach/analyst for pro teams, got hired by Riot to write about esports, transferred to Playtest once I was here. Constantly improving your craft is hard but worthwhile. If you're driven to get somewhere, never take no for an answer, and always focus on your own improvement, you might not get where you want to be, but you will get somewhere and you'll find that you're pretty good at it.

FlacidGnome30 votes

"Back then I was gold or something unimpressive" I've read this from so many Rioters posts. Although i know gold isn't the best is still super offensive to those of us stuck in silver or bronze who strive for this.

SeemonDemon39 votes

Stop trying to find a reason to be offended by something... That is the problem with society today. He didn't say that Gold is bad, just that it's not impressive. It's an opinion. Don't try to infringe upon someone else's right to express their opinion.

Zantumall21 votes

Stating that you're upset by something isn't the same thing as trying to squelch free speech, just so you know.

RiotSkarnye West28 votes

Amen to this.

What strikes me as really overly sensitive isn't the person who says "hey, could you say that differently?" It's the person who freaks out at the mere suggestion that maybe it's worth learning how to better communicate in a way that doesn't bother other people.

I appreciate the feedback, even if not everybody does.

Spaceman5pff3 votes

What a Gentleman

multigasmic5 votes

You make a fair point indeed, but really, gold is 24% of ranked players? That's good for a lot of people, but in the context of the article it was a way to say you weren't quite adequate enough for what you had wanted to do, and that shouldn't have offended anyone. I guess I agree he should have the right to say that he was offended, but in this specific case there isn't really any learning point. Gold is just a ranking and if you put in enough time anyone can get there. If you're stuck in silver or bronze, no matter how it feels to hear, this is because you aren't good enough to move up YET. But it is JUST a game anyway. It's so silly to be offended over something like ranking in a game. :) I think both have a point, but at the same time, you've done nothing wrong. "...but I was convinced I was going to go pro." is the part he left out, and that gives the former quote context.

RiotSkarnye West9 votes

I don't disagree with you. I certainly wasn't speaking with malicious intent. But as somebody who works as a writer, understanding how an audience will interpret my words is an important skill to develop, so I consider these things to be valuable learning opportunities, even (or perhaps especially) when I am not quite sure I agree.

Learning to see the world from somebody else's perspective is a hard skill to develop, but it's one I actively seek to improve.

RiotSkarnye West23 votes

Nah, I'm going to own up to that and say he has a point. I was writing off of the cuff, and got caught up in the emotion I was feeling at the time, which was disappointment in myself. What I wanted to say was that I felt like - for something that was taking up so much of my life, my options were "amazing at the game" or "stop wasting my time and go back into academia"

My housemate is Silver, but most people in my life have been Diamond for many seasons and so it's easy to forget the struggle of improving and learning.

RiotSkarnye West12 votes

It bothers me that this comment has 8 upvotes and yet the comment it's in response to is getting downvoted when they're supporting the same general viewpoint...

That probably says more about first posts vs responses and the impact of a Red Name but it's still unfortunate.

Downvoting a comment should be because it's irrelevant or offensive or whatever, not because you disagree with it.

Baron of Bread4 votes

You report a comment for being irrelevant or offensive, you downvote if you disagree.

Decrit4 votes

I don't agree with that, because reports to me are for "important" stuff like heavy and repetative inaults, death threaths, homophobia and stuff like that. Downvotes for me are for those that do not bring anything valuable to a discussion, like shitposting or just being rude. I don' t think that shitposting or being rude is worth a report ( where rude is different from acting with the intent of being offensive).

RiotSkarnye West6 votes

That adequately sums up my behavior. Obviously people have different community standards, but I'm more concerned with fostering an environment where differing opinions are tolerated, but harassment or bullying are not.

Tentacle Love4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hbJF0K2v,comment-id=0000000000000002,timestamp=2016-03-08T23:10:03.043+0000)

Nah, I'm going to own up to that and say he has a point. I was writing off of the cuff, and got caught up in the emotion I was feeling at the time, which was disappointment in myself. What I wanted to say was that I felt like - for something that was taking up so much of my life, my options were "amazing at the game" or "stop wasting my time and go back into academia"

My housemate is Silver, but most people in my life have been Diamond for many seasons and so it's easy to forget the struggle of improving and learning.

Would you please run for president?

Zaddn26 votes

Up-vote this comment if you read this WHOLE THING. I know I did... (and I don't read...) Just curious how many people care about stories like this one. BECAUSE IT'S AS FREAKIN' MOTIVATIONAL AS A TED TALK!

RiotSkarnye West17 votes

Aw, thanks for your super kind comment :) [slayer-jinx-catface]

Spaceman5pff3 votes

This was a really cool story to see! I have been thinking about the path I have been going down in school for some time now, wondering if it was the right choice, and some other ideas popped up, maybe I should chase them after i finish up here.

patmax173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hbJF0K2v,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-08T21:19:40.100+0000)

At some point I wrote an article on gender in League of Legends, and this guy from some website reached out to see if I wanted to write for them. I was super excited, but I never heard back from him.

Still one of my favourite articles on that topic :)

I'd love to see an updated version, also given how much Riot has grown in regards to sensitivity to the issue

RiotSkarnye West5 votes

Haha, thanks! It was one of my favorite articles to write, as I'm quite politically active (boy do I have stories about cops and me...)

I've been thinking about that recently, actually. The last two-three years of champions have been amazing, not just for dealing well with gender, but also for really increasing pathos of the characters.

I'm afraid it would probably ring a bit false/propaganda-like now that I'm at Riot, so I've avoided it, but it's been on my mind.

Ariz The Duck1 votes

Could you tell us a more particularly funny/outrageous story involving the cops? One that wouldn't be too inappropriate as too tell*[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]*

RiotSkarnye West2 votes

Hmmmm...

I was once pepper sprayed and threatened with arrest for "obstructing a pedestrian thoroughfare" aka standing on a sidewalk. Not particularly funny, I suppose.

I think I'll have to plead the 5th on that one :P

Diamantedust3 votes

incredible man, hope to one day play a game with you

NobodysHeartless5 votes

I love this post. I hate how inspiring it is.

I just finished an anime that had a very emotional ending. Now I'm just sitting here after seeing it & reading this... I feel so heartbroken and motivated at the same time.

You are now 1 more person I look up to. I hope you stay with Riot for a long time. [slayer-jinx-catface]

ImAtaloss2 votes

Thanks for sharing the story. Excellent introspective piece. Your writing skills are pure gold- I work in corporate communication which means removing all forms of style and tone from any comm. I envy the freedoms you have! Reading your story it is apparent that you worked for it and you deserve all you get.

RiotSkarnye West2 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for sharing the story. Excellent introspective piece. Your writing skills are pure gold- I work in corporate communication which means removing all forms of style and tone from any comm. I envy the freedoms you have! Reading your story it is apparent that you worked for it and you deserve all you get.

I absolutely love the freedom I'm afforded in the line of communication. Of course, that freedom comes at a cost; I own up to my mistakes and remember that it's the players who make my job possible.

ArcOfAnarchy2 votes

You know, in video games you can't learn much from the actual games. You learn the most from online interactions with other people. One of the biggest reasons I game.

kumorinakime2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gentleman Gustaf,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hbJF0K2v,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-03-08T21:19:40.100+0000)

Hmmm...in 2011, I graduated college with a Linguistics degree, and no clue what I wanted to do with my life.

Oh god.... x.x

I graduated with a linguistics degree... same boat. Don't know what I'm doing with my life xD Taught ESL, now I'm a private tutor/nanny.

D:

Merxamers11 votes

I'm a little concerned as to how the Nautilus nerf will impact his jungling. I know you rarely see him in the jungle anymore, but at least Pantheon got some compensation (increased E damage on monsters). Is this something you all talked about at all?

Also, one note about J4; i love him as a champion- he and Vi got me started playing jungle in the first place. However, it feels like he has very little synergy with the main jungle items.

For example, if J4 gets Warrior enchant he'll do great damage, but will be way to fragile to do his job (initation), while Pantheon, Rengar, etc. are just fine. If he gets Cinderhulk, his damage is negligible until he gets his next item, as opposed to Rek'Sai who wrecks people with it.

Basically, J4 (and Vi, now that i think about it) rely on early ganks, but can't really do it effectively until they have two items. I'm not really sure how this can be fixed (add another jungle item?), but it's one reason it's felt kinda bad to play J4 jungle for a while.

tymaeus2 votes

dude, I naut jungle often and he still rocks man. Just saying, no nerf can calm down the oceans of that maniac.

Ave Machina10 votes

I understand the reasons for the Nautilus and Pantheon nerfs, but why was it a problem that there were champions who countered Quinn and Graves in top lane? Do you think that these changes leave them room to become problematic?

What do you think about the prevalence of Guinsoo's Rageblade + Sated Devourer on AD bruisers?

Are you concerned that making Soraka max her Q first will make her less able to protect her allies during early game? What about the non-stackable HoT making her less able to protect her allies during late game teamfights?

What effect do you think the turret nerfs have had on game balance?

BAKED NACHO 993 votes

i dont really understand the need to nerf pantheon. true he may be very strong at harrase early game but you have to understand that early game is the point for pantheon to get ahead due to the fact he falls off late game. if you nerf him making his early game weak then he wont be able to get ahead making he usless. his abilitys require a lot of mana considering how much you start off with and he only has one form of cc which happens to be only a 1 second stun. he is very easy to gank since he has no form of off get away so i dont really understand why he is getting nerfed?

Kirurgo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ave Machina,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=hbJF0K2v,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-03-08T20:52:58.521+0000)

I understand the reasons for the Nautilus and Pantheon nerfs, but why was it a problem that there were champions who countered Quinn and Graves in top lane? Do you think that these changes leave them room to become problematic?

I agree with your concerns. Quinn and Graves are already pretty hard to beat. Why do these 2 champions need such special focus, especially when graves is already so overwhelmingly strong? I mean, graves has everything he needs (except more shells in his gun): high burst, mobility, reload mechanic so he doesnt lose damage, tankiness. Graves has also had a ridiculous win rate since the pre-season. I highly doubt he fell below %50 win rate. I think they're just pushing the tanky-overwhelmingly-bursty-graves-meta as much as they wanted to push the adc-mordekaiser-meta and they're continuing to push it because they are receiving less negative feedback.

Currently it feels like graves doesn't even have to get ahead to become ahead. He's already innately ahead.

Oxsley10 votes

I would really like to know how the halving the time of getting to level 30 will work. For example if an account was level 24 would it just be boosted to 30 as the patch would be taken into effect or would total exp not matter? Basically will people be the same level after the patch goes live?

jazzerbone909 votes

"Trying to stay impartial and not having your emotions get the better of you when you’re having a discussion with a teammate or a designer. Just because you hate playing against a champion doesn’t mean it needs a nerf; I try my hardest not to be biased."

I do not think nerfing Nautilus is a good response to people finally realizing that he is a good and very versatile champ. As tanky as he is, his biggest weaknesses are consistent damage and good disengage champs. His cooldowns are high enough that if burned poorly, makes him a burden for team fight. As for his offense, I know his E has been nerfed once already, and the rest of his abilities do little damage anyways. I can maybe see making his ult a skill shot ult, somewhat like braums (maybe even a combination of braum/nami). Also, the peel he provides for his squishier teammates is also mediocre. His passive shines in small skirmishes, but is greatly diminished, and almost irrelevant in team fights against backline diving compositions. Nautilus is my favorite champ in League and I truly think he is balanced. I do not think he has been given a fair amount of time for people to react to him strategically before being considered for nerfs. I cannot speak on behalf of pantheon players because I am by no means a pantheon expert, but nautilus is a great tank without being a total juggernaut.

On another note, all these champions keep getting buffs, nerfs, or unnecessary reworks (*cough shen), but 0 attention has been given to Yorick. Even skarner got reworked in the juggernaut patch. This is a champ that needs the most work and I do not know why riot seems to be ignoring that fact.

Crovax II4 votes

because no one likes yorik. Riot put him in a corner and he will stay there.

krazy4golf4 votes

You do realize Yorick's rework is scheduled for latter this year correct

Alpha Omega 23493 votes

I totally agree the one thing that I buld on naut (I main naut jungle) that is not meta is a roa because of the insane boost that it gives 120 ap 600 health 800 mana it solves all of nauts problems and it is how he can deal damage naut top runs out of mana fast and it really not to obsene and what is the point in making nauts e even weaker you are striping a kit of all of its power last time you take w damage and move it to e now you take e damage I get naut is hard to balance his kit is so laded with cc but riot is striping it bareand not giving him anything in return leave nautalis beNautilus

Malicious Metal6 votes

Aw yeah, those 8% increased shielding from Runic Armor on Mordekaiser's Iron Man will definitely go a long way. Always shield, never die indeed!

iiIhNqTeka5 votes

Hi Riot, Is there ant reason for not releasing Hextech Crafting? I pls this since it was the CLASH OF FATES

NGNL Asian4 votes

hahahha. Nerfing nautilus, meanwhile Alistar.

Bladerunner77773 votes

Hey!

While it is really nice to see Hecarim buffs, I'm still concerned about his viability. A lot of the features that we Hecarim mains loved about him are gone, particularly early homeguard rush. It allowed him to snowball well so he could fund his expensive build, he could also stay relevant if he fell behind - giving him some elbow room in bad matchups.

Hecarim's gimmicks is what made him unique. Many people found him frustrating because he was an odd champion. Currently he doesn't feel like he's filling any niches. He doesn't have the damage to be a dive-assassin, when building full tank he feels extremely squishy, his engage isn't as reliable as other champions (he's very easy to flash away from, and his knockback + fear mechanic only pushes the enemy further away if they do flash).

I can understand removing the ghosting passive even though it restricts him mostly to jungle, but it feels like the core parts of Hecarim are gone and something needs to fill in the gap. My friends and I joke that Hecarim should have Corki's package to make up for the lack of early homeguards. But I would be more than excited to see any unique interaction such as "the package" added on to Hecarim.

Buuuuuut I think a simple QoL change to Hecarim would be increasing Onslaught of Shadow's missile speed. It isn't a very reliable engage tool which (from my understanding) is what you guys want Hecarim to be; an initiator.

Double JJs3 votes

This is all fine and dandy, but where did my patch rundown video go?

xshortzox3 votes

I just love how the team at riot works so hard to make their community better. Seeing a post like this really warms my heart and makes me feel that much better about riot. And through reading the comments, I really get the sense of a community. It makes me happy to know that this community is so good. So often i see the bad side of it in games, but it is posts and discussions like this that really restore my faith in League players.

RiotSkarnye West3 votes

I don't know where else it was said in this thread, but somebody commented that the real learning comes not from playing in game, but from interactions with the community, and I couldn't agree more.

Dreampod2 votes

Given how poor taking Herald is generally perceived versus taking dragon how do you think that cutting an incentive for devourer junglers to want to take him will shift his role as an already largely ignored objective?

xo Violet3 votes

Rift Herald is an extremely useful objective/buff. They nerfed the stacks it gives towards sated because it is a pretty easy objective to take and because it allows a sated jungler to snowball incredibly hard if they can take both that and dragon early on.

el Tartoon1 votes

Bye bye kogmaws passive attackspeed :( the one thing that made me want to buy the champ.

Shadowteen209 votes

Ahem. Time for the professor to enter the room.

Hello, welcome to Kog'maw Mains 101. Kog'Maw is a late game cannon, focused on helping the team last till he gets damage. While removing his instant Attack Speed Growth on his w seems like a nerf, in all actuality the way they changed him, he is buffed. Time for the math.

  • With no items, the old Kog'maw recieved 1.5% attack speed buff, and the additional 50% from his w. 1.5*18+35%= 62% attack speed with only a minimum 15 damage at level 18.

  • The new Kog'Maw recieves 3.5 attack speed growth per level, and instead of an attack speed buff on his w, he received a magic on hit buff of 25. 3.5%*18= 63% with 25 magic on-hit at level 18.

Sure it may only be 1 measly percent of an attack speed, but in return, you now have 30* magic on hit to add.

While this may seem like a nerf, at level 18, he has more attack speed, more on-hit damage, and hey, his q is a little less costly.

This will be on the Test on Friday. Do not forget to study, have a nice night.

Edit: * The on hit is 30, not 25.

RiotSkarnye West3 votes

I hope more people read this :)

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