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Wukong Update- Now In Active Development!

RiotRiot Lutzburg·10/23/2019, 9:18:06 PM·1 votes·121,362 views

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since Meddler first spoke to you about a potential Wukong update, which eventually made its way to the PBE and got a lot of positive feedback. As you may have seen last week, we’ve been hard at work on our big preseason update. Now that we’re wrapping it up, we’re taking the opportunity to finish what we started with Wukong. It’s taken longer than we wanted it to, but I'm happy to announce that I'm helping push Wukong’s update across the finish before the end of this year.

We want to take this opportunity to improve Wukong and give him some new tools to succeed in Season 10 and beyond. These tools will include alternative build paths that focus on higher durability, and new ways to capitalize on Wukong’s tricky nature. Since we have a lot of other projects underway, and since Wukong fans have been waiting so long, we want to ship this update at its current scope as fast as possible.

For context, here's my plan for tackling the update:

  1. Reconfirm the direction of the changes (both internally and with Wukong players)
  2. Determine what (if any) mechanics changes need to be made
  3. Balance the change list with the help of our SR and play test teams
  4. Find and/or build suitable visual effects that we feel meet our shippable quality bar
  5. Fix about 25 bugs created as a result of these changes

And here's a high level look at the biggest changes:

  • P- Wukong gains a large amount of resistances when near 3+ enemy Champions. In addition, he gains bonus attack range on his next basic attack after using any ability

  • Q- Physical damage reduced, but deals bonus magic damage that also heals Wukong. Passively, Wukong and his clones add stacking marks against their target, increasing the damage they deal by a percentage

  • W- Wukong now stealths and dashes to a nearby target location (leaving behind a clone), and can be used to jump small walls. The clone lasts a few seconds and can't move but will attack things close to it for 50% damage (applies on-hit effects)

  • E- now creates clones that also dash towards nearby targets, masking the real Wukong's target. The clones are considered units and can intercept spells and be targeted

  • R- can now be canceled early by using another ability

Why these changes?

Our goal is to open up additional play styles for Wukong without invalidating his glass cannon lethality build. One of these styles leans into a more tanky, extended team fight bruiser archetype. The extra durability and sustain can let Wukong survive in fights for multiple spell rotations, giving him more chances to outplay his opponents. This is especially fun given the new focus on being a "trickster" Champion. With his new clone and dash mechanics (and the ability to hop walls), Wukong players can now engage in a more cerebral and diabolical style of fighting it they wish to.

Want to help?

If you're a passionate Wukong player or top lane main, I want to hear from you! Let me know what parts of this change list excite you and/or concern you. Just know that we had an extensive feedback period earlier this year, and my job is largely to push this change list across the finish line, so please don't expect a massive overhaul to what's being proposed above.

-Lutzburg

240 Comments

Joeda8910/24/2019, 7:00:07 AM34 votes

Long time wukong player here. Thank you so much for taking this project. I know we can be hard to deal with at times and greatly appreciate your and Meddler's work on our favorite monkey.

P- Wukong gains a large amount of resistances when near 3+ enemy Champions. In addition, he gains bonus attack range on his next basic attack after using any ability

Q- Physical damage reduced, but deals bonus magic damage that also heals Wukong. Passively, Wukong and his clones add stacking marks against their target, increasing the damage they deal by a percentage

This concerns me a bit. When the rework was being tested extra range passive was on Q and the %damage increases was his new passive. If this goes live we will be **forced **to start q lvl 1. I hope these passives are swapped back as soon as possible.

Thought on wukong's W: One of my main concerns with rework is that his clone attacking might be overvalued when considering kit power. Yes it is great for jungle clear but in lane it is pretty much irrelevant. The only way we can grantee the clone attacks our lane opponent is by ulting them right after our we clone, wasting the stealth duration. I would love to have an incentive to use clone in combat, but as damage it is not worth using. Relying on your opponent stand on the clone and auto it does not seem very appealing.

Would there be room in the kit to reward wukong players for using clone to mitigate damage. We saw this with pantheon E. Using it to block damage rather than simple be part of the damage rotation is a way to show skill expression on panth, and outplay opponents. Is there any chance wukong W could have a similar use? Maybe when the W takes damage from an enemy champion, wukong gains some benefit. Weather it be mana and health back, a shield, damage reduction or even a damage boost. It would feel much better to be rewarded for cloning the right time to mitigate damage.

But doesn't W already mitigate damage? Yes, for single target skill shots. There are so many aoe abilities/line skill shots that hit multiple targets that only being able to block one type of ability has lost much of its original value. Being able to mitigate some of the rampant aoe damage seems like a decent way to modernize the kit to me.

Wukong's mana: When mana potions were in the game, wukong would often buy them to sustain early. When you removed the mana potions in patch 5.22, you buffed several champion's base mana and mana regen. Wukong did not receive any mana buffs to compensate for the loss of mana potion. So many champions can spam abilities in lane, and if wukong attempts to punish them for using an ability on the wave, he will oom himself faster than any other toplaner/midlaner. Please look into ways to help wukong sustain mana. If we are going to be a sustain fighter, we must have better mana costs or a way to get mana back outside of runes.

Thoughts on wukong's ult and attack speed: I am worried about the anti-synergy in wukong's kit that exist with regard to his e and ult. The attack speed we get on e is very nice for lane and extended team fights. Bruiser wukong loves this attack speed, until he has to ult with it. Wasting the attack speed ult is often a necessity, but why does it have to go to waste? Why can't wukong's ult have some scaling based on attack speed? Garen's e almost got to apply on hit effects as a basic ability, so why can't an ultimate get similar treatment?I know that the knock up duration must be considered too, but honestly in most fights, unless there is a yasuo, the knock up is only useful when one shoting squishes, or escaping. It is often best to cancel the wukong ult early, right after the knock up. Why? because in those few seconds, you can get more out of auto attacks and abilities than the remaining ticks on the ult? Doesn't that seem wrong? If i need to cancel my ult, it should be so that I can w, or get away. I don't think it should ever be optimal to cancel the ult, to increase damage. If we want to play bruiser wukong, having some kind of attack speed scaling on ult will open wukong up to on-hit builds, besides just the w on hit meme builds.

Decoy Reborn10/24/2019, 2:17:25 PM31 votes

Hello Again , Decoy Master here i'am S2/3 MonkeyKing Main and thanks for letting us know about your hardwork guys , as a Top lane and a Wukong main i've been asking for these changes many times but due to current wukong's stat most of wu players weren't happy about moving the wuk,ong from an assassin to bruiser is a great idea and it will be much more important for top lane wukong !! Here is some quick thoughts about the changes : we would like a new visual update with like fewer animations also General Wukong / Infernal should have some new animations& VGU update because everyone was complaining about this skins since ages !! Wukong's Mana pool is quite small compared to to others bruiser ! now let's talk about the abilites !! -Passive (Stone Skin) : The new passive is quite good and it fits with wukong's nature and i think finally we wont hear people saying wukong build tank when the champ has no utility because the lack of cc "because tanks are useless because of cc" ! -Crushing Blow : we would like it to deal Physical damage instead of magic damage (or maybe hybrid like jax ? so we wont be disbaled by an armor cloth or tabis), a decent scaling rather than the current one and also everytop laner has a cc pre 6 so some kind of CC like Stun or something will be appreciated ! we really don't mind if the new Q will be a skillshot so people realise the risk of missing a cc is making us a vulnerable target ! so that another point ! -Decoy : the W idea is quite good and everyone likes that because i think it will make wukong jungler viable again and also for Top Wukong making him able to trade properly ! (the fact that the new w is dealing physcial damage is what it should be the old one was quite meaningless) -Nimbus Strike : i would say that The wu's E should stay like it is! Cyclone : and the most important ability we need to talk about , if you had a deep look on Wukong's R early damage compared to everytop laner R Damage you will notice that is not making any sense (my suggestion here is to add a small buff to wukong's R early damage) , maybe increasing wukongs R hit rate and buff base dmg ,he has to spin faster so enemy champs can not hit him with dashes while spinning and one last question is gonna be live next patch or still still need some researches My Conclusion : with this new Kit i think Wukong will raise and will be able to sustain more and will be a viable pick in highelo if not mistaken , and let us know what do you think about these suggestions , Thanks again for putting a lot of efforts!

RiotRiot Lutzburg10/25/2019, 2:12:28 AM27 votes

Hi everyone, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for all the detailed, thorough and well-written responses I've seen so far. Sadly I don't have the bandwidth to respond to each piece of feedback individually, but I've read every single post and proposal and will be keeping them in mind moving forward.

Instead, I'm going to respond to a few of the most common things I've seen so far:

  • "E into R feels bad because the attack speed is wasted." Heard. I'll look into ways to mitigate this, but can't promise anything.

  • "Wukong has mana problems." Yep, he sure does. This is largely by design because his poke/trading pattern is fairly low counterplay. We gate this power similarly with Malphite's Q. I'll look into this, but know that it's an intended weakness of the character and buffing it would likely mean we pull damage out of his kit (which would hurt burst/assassination builds).

  • "You're killing assassin Wukong!" Not exactly. The goal is for it to remain "viable." That doesn't mean "the clear and obvious best way to build him in every game." It means you can still find success with it. And indeed, these changes are likely going to push Wukong more towards the bruiser space as his primary class and combat style. All we're committing to is that we aren't objectively denying the existence of lethality builds in the same way we did with, say, AP Master Yi (which was deemed unhealthy for the game).

  • "AP on Q is bad!" Please note that we're experimenting with giving Q bonus magic damage that scales with spell rank; NOT AP ratios. We have no intention of asking Wukong players to build Amplifying Tomes to deal damage. The goal is to slightly reduce burst damage from lethality builds while simultaneously making it harder for opponents to shut down Wukong's trades with early armor purchases.

  • "Wukong NEEDS CC on his base kit!" I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I disagree. A lack of CC is a very important aspect of his weakness profile, thus incentivizing and rewarding Wukong players for skillfully utilizing their stealth, clones, and hit-and-run mechanics. Wukong is actually fairly unique in how he approaches enemies and mitigates damage, which is something we want to preserve. Giving him a slow or root means we'd have to pull power elsewhere, which would likely end up hurting his unique identity.

E X Ø D ł A 10/23/2019, 9:58:36 PM22 votes

#Idk this man but Thank YOU SIR! #Bless you! Finally <3 Idc what u change give me anything ! Anything s fine atm ;D MonkeyKing

Gigantrous10/23/2019, 9:24:56 PM14 votes

(: MonkeyKing :) Finally!

ModThe Djinn10/23/2019, 9:28:04 PM14 votes

P- Wukong gains a large amount of resistances when near 3+ enemy Champions. In addition, he gains bonus attack range after using any ability

Seems good to me, and helps lock him down as a big fight disruption threat. I'm hoping the detection range for 3+ enemies is significant?

Q- Physical damage reduced, but deals bonus magic damage that also heals Wukong. Passively, Wukong and his clone add stacking marks against their target, increasing the damage they deal by a percentage

I like this quite a bit. Having a heal onto it really helps his laning, and the magic damage will help him survive +armor without making him so bursty. Great change.

W- Wukong now dashes to a nearby target location (leaving behind a clone), and can be used to jump small walls. The clone lasts a few seconds and can't move but will attack things close to it for 50% damage

Does Wukong still stealth? If not, this feels like it takes away a key aspect of his gameplay with stop command baiting. Does the clone apply on-hit effects?

I'm also honestly a bit concerned that the clone keeps attacking for reduced damage, as that makes it readily apparent that it's Wukong (attacks without moving, deals reduced damage, no longer remains perfectly still). Given that was one of the fun mind-games Wukong could pull and one of his few skill tests (as the rest of his kit is fairly point-and-click), it's a bit disappointing.

That said, I love the dash -- it's something I was toying with in my own Wukong exploration, so it's fun to see it here and I'm excited to use it.

E- now creates clones during the dash, which are considered units and can intercept spells and be targeted

Would you consider pausing the attack speed duration when R is in use? It always felt bad to get the attack speed buff on your engage but then lose it because you ended up in a good position to ult. That was one of the changes I was hoping to see.

R- can now be canceled early by using another ability

I get the flexibility this offers, certainly, but I worry it is more of a trap than it appears to be and could happen by accident. It kind of makes me wonder what would happen if Wukong could E and W during the ultimate but kept spinning, although I admit that's somewhat odd and probably difficult to parse for both the player and the enemy.

Good stuff first: these are good changes almost across the board, and well-reasoned. Wukong will be better with them, I feel.

That said, I'm a little disappointed (I feel there's a lot of potential left on the table -- I don't feel these suggestions are bad), as it feels that this version of Wukong doesn't do much to expand on his skill expression (save adding a dash and clones, but the latter is somewhat questionable because it requires a target in range and is also your primary engage -- I may find it better in practice). I was hoping to see him moved a bit more away from his pattern of "target someone and click buttons at them."

It's definitely an improvement on his current design, and I like the push towards a trickier bruiser. I just find myself wishing it went a bit further in that direction and perhaps got rid of a bit more of the point-and-click or passive "exist and right click" gameplay.

CrazyMLC10/24/2019, 9:18:26 AM14 votes

Make his ult scale with AS so it doesn't feel like you're wasting your E's steroid when you dash in to ult. It feels awful when your ultimate ability does less damage than your auto attacks.

Garen's spin is literally better damage than Wukong's ultimate.

I am ZER010/23/2019, 9:47:11 PM13 votes

Passive problems are still there - low gameplay interaction: resistance stats are not visible and underestimated by players. Make it more interactive and visible. Smth like: "Hitting 3 different champions within 2 seconds grants Wukong a shield for 15% of his Max Health" Is it too hard to code at this stage of rework?

Kazekiba10/23/2019, 10:16:57 PM11 votes

PLEASE PLEASE

Make sure he's tuned for Jungle too! The heal on his Q, when I tested it last time, on top of armor shred (namely, Scuttle and blue) helps tremendously with his early clears and Wu is always great at level 2-3 duels so he should be fine. But I vastly prefer his Jungle playstyle to playing Top lane, and I would be very hurt to see him lose it.

Wukong Airlines10/24/2019, 11:52:07 PM7 votes

Thank you for finally deciding to proceed with Wukong changes, it's about time.

If the direction will stay the same to shift wukong to a bruiser, then:

Passive {{Stone Skin}} : why dont we give the champ the ability to have durability even VS single targets? Reducing it to 3 targets was a good choice but still , champs like [camille Camille ] for example can get 2 types of shields and duel/poke while wukong will be limited to have extra resistances that can be easily penetrated item 3134 item 3035 item 3135 with items and requires 3 enemies.

Suggestion: since wukong's theme [the more you fight the more you get stronger and learn. why dont we make the resistances scale like the % damage] ? when you fight/engage, you stack resistances.

Q {{Crushing Blow}}: to feel like a bruiser, we should be able to deal between 2 types of damage, or true/% damage.

Suggestion: if you want to keep the magic damage, you can keep it, but add [ on full passive stacks on enemy, [Q] deals true damage ]OR test it as a skillshot with range and additional CC (wukong needs a cc pre-6 like almost every bruiser)

W {{Decoy}}: I have nothing to add here, but if we can keep the exploding magic damage, why not? faster jungler clear.

E {{Nimbus Strike}}: it should stay the way it is, but with a bit higher scaling. or higher base damage

**R {{Cyclone}}: ** something has to change here, either the damage speed, or the overall seconds the ability lasts. 4 seconds for a bruiser where fights end fast is too much ,unless its combined with stacks of passive to deal true damage or hybrid then that's different. or add some type of other CC.

Overall, I believe Wukong needs something new to his kit that makes him feel like a bruiser, the Q heal is not enough, he needs damage reduction/mitigation. That could be added to his [W] or [R]. let me know what you think about my suggestions.

JetBlack11/15/2019, 1:44:36 AM6 votes

@Riot Lutzburg

Here is my issue with this. I played the Wukong rework back in may on PBE and I have been playing the champ since season 3. Overall these buffs are a push in the right direction but he felt insanely weak still compared to all the other champions. Why bother playing this "buffed" rework when you can play champions like Garen, Irelia, Morderkaiser, Darius, Urgot, etc. All those champions feel like they do more damage, provide some sort of cc, and for the most part have a heal. What does Wukong offer? A weak heal, okay damage, and a ult that does very little damage. Maybe Wukong's heal can scale with AD and the ratios on some of his moves can be slightly increased. Also for his W Maybe once out of invisibility, his armor/mr can go up for a few seconds. Another thing.. I don't feel like his E is that much of an improvement. Once the E is gone everyone knows where Wukong is. Maybe if the clones lasted for a split second after the E finishes that would be pretty game-changing. I hope this feedback helps as I would love to see my OG main become a relevant top laner again :)

BoltSparksGaming10/23/2019, 10:40:04 PM6 votes

These are the things I want to mention:

  1. His mana abilities are still too costly for a low mana champion

  2. The clone should move. As if a Shaco clone. With time, people will be able to tell the difference with cast and w-juke, rendering the ability useless once again. I would suggest that the clone can move a limited distance and be able to swap places with original wu (like Zed W) for more outplay potential, making him more than "dive in and die" champ

  3. I am really hoping that his Q can work like new Pantheon, where tap can be a quick stab, and hold will be a skillshot for poke

  4. Bless your soul for remembering Wukong

  5. His R should be tuned to match Garen's E: being able to stack Conq and do more damage

  6. The interaction of the Q passive and E is very wonky, (getting bonus range after a gap closer) seems weird.

  7. Would hope that when the clone timer runs down, the clone explodes, dealing flat AOE magic damage.

Logmin10/24/2019, 5:27:49 AM6 votes

I appreciate the desire to get this out asap, but please don't ignore the possibility of a visual update. I'd absolutely love to see his visuals updated, even if it's just a bit - like the Fiora update. Maybe some new voice lines, emotes, anything. He's just barely on the border of dated and good enough. Even a small push forward would be fantastic.

Chiàsse de Myw10/24/2019, 6:29:53 PM5 votes

So you swapped the Q passive and his second passive ? I guess it makes little difference unless there is scaling involved.

He lacks mana, base damage, the decoy is gimmicky for the damage part, most champions get stronger thanks to it (illaoi/renekton) or have AOE anyways and good players will just walk around without another CC besides the ult.

Wukong lethality is dead because the combos are obnoxious now tbh(quick cancel of q animation with the ult is mandatory at high elo due to quick reactions), and the magic damage Q makes armor penetration irrelevant (his actual combo is 80% damage from e-aa-q-electrocute).

buff mana and base damage at least or he will still be extremely useless in lane, a 20-100 q heal won't fix that.

Warwıck10/23/2019, 10:02:20 PM5 votes

During the 10 year anniversary stream, you were talking about how you guys listen to the players and take us into consideration. But I honestly felt a little left out considering our wishes for a Wukong update, and how long it has taken, and even been frown upon by some of the Rioters.

Many of us were sure we would never see an update to Wukong, and I was honestly a littlw scared you would change him TOO much. You've done great.

I finally can agree that you as employees at Riot actually listen, and that you actually pay attention to every little fan base of your game.

Thank you guys!

L9 Anwar10/24/2019, 7:15:07 AM5 votes

Wukong main here in D2

Can you make his Q stun monsters so he can do scuttles properly? THANKS

Mr PussTang10/24/2019, 6:57:25 PM5 votes

Please switch his Q and Passive back around. You're forcing us to level up a weak non-scaling Q that is AP just to get that bonus scaling damage that was on the P. Not cool. No one even builds AP on Wukong. Why would you do this and Lower all his AD ratios? who are you wanting us to fight? lol. you literally just said you don't want to take away from his glass cannon assassin build and that's exactly what you're doing...if you're wanting us to play a tanky Wu, then stop lowering the ratios and switch back the Q and P so we can actually build tanky and do decent damage.

We all like Wukong mid. Give us a chance to keep that option.

Fix his mana. He's way too mana hungry.

His Q should be AD not AP.

If you're trying to put him top lane, he needs some type of CC. This is the least of my worries but EVERY top laner has some type of cc whether it's Renekton's stun, Fiora's no damage taken stun, Riven's TWO stuns, Camille's stun, Jax's stun, etc. I am not saying he needs a stun bc he already is strong with his clone if used correctly but maybe a root?

as you already mentioned: DO NOT GET RID OF ASSASSIN WUKONG. THAT IS THE REASON WE ALL PLAY HIM. WE LIKE HIS STYLE.

Do something different with this R please. I hate the damage being done over 4 secs. That's not good when you're squishy. If we are going to build him tanky, then it's not going to do damage at all.

A huge majority of wukong mains such as Harambe will agree with me on this: We don't even really need a rework. We just wanted him buffed. We love the way he plays he was just too weak to compete. But we have faith in you and think you're doing a great job with these changes. They sound promising and if you believe you can make him more viable for modern league, then I am on board.

Thank you for pushing it out!!!

jonaskim9510/24/2019, 8:01:20 AM5 votes

Well, I've been a Wukong main since season 4 so I'd like to give my opinion. I feel like this new kit is adequate for a champion in 2013's League of Legends. Even this rework is extremely outdated.

The W is too strong for jungle, but seems completely useless in lane. It's too easy to distinguish from the real one from what I've seen on PBE. It just stands there menacingly and doesn't ever really do any damage. Being able to use it as Zed's W would add much needed outplay potential but I don't think you'll go that way.

The lack of early game CC (even in the form of a slow or something similar) will still make him unviable top lane. I can't think of an AD bruiser viable in the top lane that doesn't have some sort of CC. The Q - being an extending staff skill-shot with a slow if hit by the end of the staff would make up for this and make his kit more interactive.

As for Jungle a clone that lasts for that long will make his clear way too good so I think Wuk will be nerfed to the ground there and that's something I definitely wouldn't want to see. (The slow would also not make his ganks useless pre-6).

Lastly, his passive seems as uninteristing as ever. No Wukong main liked his old passive and I'm sure no one likes the new one, at least the resistances part. If you want wukong to be a bruiser and for him to have resistances at least make them interactive and not: "hope 1 more dude runs into me and not away from me or I'll get wrecked because I'm so squishy".

SS5DEJAN10/23/2019, 10:09:26 PM4 votes

I played the potential rework on PBE and the new W was a little annoying I kept seeing it cancel its autos and glitch out when an enemy was near. I hope that gets fixed. I hope it prioritizes champions as well. Aside from that I'm excited to try it, but please don't kill his lethality build. If he goes full bruiser I still can't see him going toe to toe with Champs like Darius.

ModAcademy Kayn10/23/2019, 10:59:54 PM4 votes

Our goals are to open up additional play styles for Wukong without invalidating his glass cannon lethality build

I'm not a big fan to hear this. I feel like this is something the rework should've strayed away from entirely. The only things you've majorly changed are his clones and E, but now he has a dash to go along with his invisibility. I just don't think there's enough counterplay in the kit as a whole to warrant keeping the Lethality build around.

LÈ APE10/24/2019, 4:05:24 AM4 votes

Hi Lutzburg,

I'm a Wukong onetrick with around 2 million mastery points spread across different accounts. I also played the reworked Wukong for the duration it was available on PBE. There are so many things that I could list/suggest here, I can go on and on, but seeing as you said that not many things can get changed at this point, I would like to point out two very important things.

  1. The reduction of AD on his Q is, in my opinion, a step in the wrong direction. Only AP item that Wukong could possibly build is a Sheen and that's it. The AP damage really doesn't help him in any way and it goes against his proposed AD bruiser playstyle. In addition, the heal is quite unsatisfactory. The whole time I played him on PBE, I always felt that the heal was irrelevant. It never healed enough where it made a meaningful difference. You said that you didn't want to invalidate his glass-cannon lethality build, however, taking away AD from his Q does exactly that. Right now, Wukong's burst comes mainly from his Q. I'm not asking that you keep his Q exactly the same, this is a rework after all, but a bit more AD on his would go a long way. And it's not just me who feels like this. Many other Wukong mains pointed this out on different platforms (discord, reddit, stream chats) when the rework was shipped to PBE. My suggestion: Increase the AD on his Q and lose the AP or the heal if you must, to balance things out. And I strongly believe that he needs some sort of CC pre-6. Nearly every champ now has some sort of CC in their non-ultimate abilities. A slow or a disarm, some sort of micro-CC, not anything huge, would go a long way.

  2. If you ask any Wukong onetrick what area Wukong could use buffs in, they'll tell you that it's his mana, i.e., his mana pool or his mana costs. Any of these numbers could use buffs. His mana numbers are incredibly outdated when you compare it to newly released champions. A modern champion can go through several early-game rotations before running out of mana, whereas two early-game rotations on Wukong is enough to drain 90 to 95% your mana. He has the seventh lowest starting mana in the game and I think that is pretty lackluster for a champion who relies on abilities to be relevant. My suggestion: Increase his mana pool or lower his mana costs.

Thank you.

Dewi310/24/2019, 3:35:33 PM4 votes

FIRST OF ALL: THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH FOR DOING THIS!

MonkeyKing is my favourite league champ of all time so I want to share my opinions as a toplane wukong player, hopefully it's not too biased.

Idea for a Q change at the bottom.

  • Passive Change - Sounds good to me, I like that the extended AA range from Q is being moved here to make the passive feel a bit more "useful" overall. Does the interaction stay the same regarding Q? If I press Q, will I still get an enhanced range as it is also applying basic attack effects?

  • Q Change - I would prefer it if the Q kept the AD dmg and maybe you changed the ratio instead. I'm afraid that magic damage will feel weird when playing Assassin Wukong. Overall I like the change though, obviously time will tell if the magic damage would mess anything up.

  • W Change - Love this a lot. I'd have to try it out to see if it works the way I imagine but this seems to be a good way going forward.

  • E Change - I'd prefer it if the E stayed the same as it is right now so you could shift some of that additional power to one of the other abilities (preferably Q or R)

  • R Change - I really appreciate the QOL change but I'd like to see more done here. For example: increasing the tickrate of the ult? There are some weird interactions with enemies when ulting every now and then and I think a higher tickrate would help with that.

Random idea I'd love you guys to consider: Wukong is one of the few Toplaners that doesn't have any CC before LvL 6 which makes laning phase a bit frustrating.

Suggested Q change to help fix this:

  • Tapping Q - stays the same as it is now

  • Charging Q - he uses his staff to sweep in front of him and "trip" enemies slowing them for a small amount, making the ability deal less damage but becoming an AOE slow (skillshot - kind of like camille W) that heals him for X% of the dmg dealt

Would also fit the theme of him being a versatile fighter as portrayed in the lore when he trained with Master Yi

Overall I'd like to see a better laning phase as that is one of the most painful aspects of his current identity as a champion and to keep full lethality/glasscannon a viable build.

Thanks in advance for the love you're giving the monkey king! MonkeyKing

Lorthos10/24/2019, 3:46:35 PM4 votes

Hello, I am a consistently 99.5% percentile Wukong main here to give some feedback. I currently mostly play him full lethality mid with a little top or adc. It is also important to mention that I tested him thoroughly on the pbe while he was there. In the post it is mentioned that your desire is to keep lethality a viable option. I will be going over each change in depth and showing how this will nerf the lethality play style while not validating a bruiser/tanky play style. I will add a tl;dr to each skill for anyone with little time.

Passive Changes: Let's start with the removal of individual bonus resists in fights with two or fewer enemies. The removal of bonus resists in a 1v1 is a nerf to his laning (even if only minor). This is of course traded for a slightly stronger survivability in larger fights. On paper this is a reasonable trade off, but in reality will make Wukong even less accessible. His laning is one of his pain points currently and nerfing it will make it nearly impossible to survive lane as a top (already is mostly at this point). This will also make it harder to lane mid. Currently the difference between winning and losing many lanes mid can come down to which resist rune one takes. This essentially removes the free double resist rune he got in the 1v1 (4 from passive vs 6 from rune). Although it is hard to initially gauge, I think this small reduction in resists from passive in the 1v1 will greatly reduce what is already a very difficult laning phase for Wukong.

Next up we have the ranged auto on ability use (although this is actually supposed to be on q). Honestly, from play testing on the pbe, this does more harm than good. There are edge cases in which a champion is just out of range to kill and you don't have e or q up to finish them and coincidentally you also have a passive stack for a range aa. But this isn't all that common. These cases are mostly solved by chasing until e is up or flashing onto them. Now the cases in which this is harmful come from fighting range opponents. Essentially, the range attacks do nothing but give range champions time to create distance without your champion moving with them to maintain distance leaving you out of range by time your passive range runs out. I find it difficult to perfectly articulate, but the bottom line is that all the extra range attacks are redundant (e is a gap closer it doesn't need a range aa after, r is mspeed boost and cc doesn't need a range aa after) and only serves to do nothing against melee enemies while providing range champions an easier kiting pattern.

Finally (although not listed as such) the passive allows for a stacking debuff that lets Wukong do more damage to his opponent. This is a ridiculously strong nerf when talking about a shifting of power budget. Wukong strives on short trades in lane- in and out hopefully before the enemy can cc or return much damage. This nerfs Wukong's only trading pattern. Again a nerf to his laning. With no way to stick to a ranged opponent long enough to stack the damage bonus he will have a harder time playing mid and vs ranged tops. Although this could arguably just shift his trading patterns vs melee lanes to being longer, his resist nerf will make this unlikely to be viable.

TL;DR Resist changes nerf his already weak laning. Range aa make it easier to get kited without benefiting melee match ups. Damage stacking passive requires too much upfront damage nerf resulting in a nerf to the only trade pattern Wukong knows- short.

Q Changes: In short the changes to Q are damage reduction, shift of physical to magic damage, a mana cost reduction, and a minor heal. The damage reduction will of course hurt Wukong a lot throughout the game, but let's look at each part of the game individually and see how the shift of damage type and heal compensate. To start off, Wukong loses more of his ability to trade in lane, but receives some sustain help and insurance against armor stackers. Although I am happy that sustain issues in lane are helped, this doesn't help Wukong much at all. The healing will be less than the extra damage taken from the resists reduction and will not help to offset armor builders or the reduced damage that Wukong will be dealing in general.

Moving on from laning phase we have to look at how the Q changes effect team fights and diving priority targets. Again, the damage reduction will neuter Wukong's ability to pick priority targets, but let's see how he will be compensated. Healing and mana cost reduction first, mana obviously doesn't change much at all because Wukong's mana issues are usually gone by time midgame fighting roles around. The healing at this point will end up being something between 100 and 200. Although for Lethality Wukong this is laughably useless, one could argue that multiple uses of it during a fight as bruiser/tank Wukong could prove useful. More importantly than the healing, however, is the damage shift. In layman's terms, it means more damage versus high armor champions and less damage versus low armor champions for lethality Wukong. Even if priority targets build high armor, last whisper/black cleaver with old Q would be more damage than new Q (either way it will be best to build lw/bc against high armor teams meaning the Q being magic is effectively pointless). This equates to a nerf when diving squishy champions which is lethality Wukong's only job. Furthermore, the help that non-lethality builders get for having a mixed damage profile is negated by the fact that Wukong won't have any form of MR shred and primarily does physical damage anyway. A single MR item, even just a null magic mantle, will completely negate any damage you might get for having Q be magic (especially due to the reduced base damage and cutting in half of the scaling).

There is another inherent problem with the new Q, and that is that there is no more armor shred. As much this makes sense considering it is magic damage now, it reduces Wukong's other abilities' damage on high armor targets and negates his ability to help physical dealing allies against armor builders. This further alienates Wukong's effectiveness outside of his current goal of assassinating priority targets.

TL;DR Q healing will not make up for the huge reduction in base and scaling damage. The change from physical to magic damage will not only hurt glass cannon damage but also bruiser/tanky builds.

W Changes: The noteworthy changes to W are that the clone can now aa, clone duration is up and scales with level, W now has a small dash that can get over small walls, and that W CD is up. Starting with the first, we notice that we lose damage in the kit in order to allow the clone to aa. This means reduced damage when engaging from stealth, when fighting range champions, when fighting mobile melee champions, and reduced burst. At first this looks like a buff to melee match ups top and a nerf to mid lane and anything outside of laning. The nerf to points outside of lane seem like a strange direction considering both the passive and Q changes are nerfs to fighting in lane. This might help compensate for the previous lane nerfs, but at best it puts us back at square one top lane- losing most fights against most champions- while putting us further behind mid lane. I am not entirely certain how I feel about this change, it definitely seems cool and adds depth to the champion, but I feel the cost is too high and hurts more cases than it helps.

Clone duration and W CD increasing are mostly the same thing so I will cover them together. The duration of the clone increasing only makes sense because it is a pivotal damage source now, but I can't wrap my head around the W CD increase. It follows that if the clone duration goes up so should the CD, but the one missing thing in the equation is that the stealth remains the same. This means that the primary use of Wukong's W, repositioning and avoiding focus, is harmed. This results in less trickery for a champion whose concept involves trickery.

Finally, the W dash. In all honesty this gives Wukong an option he doesn't need. I am sure many will disagree because the concept of dashing over walls is attractive, but in practice this will be mostly useless and will result in power being taken out of other parts of his kit. Wukong would do better to have extended W stealth or reduced W CD instead of a tiny dash.

TL;DR The aa'ing W won't benefit Wukong except in melee match ups which he already struggles in and will be getting harder with the changes. The increased W CD will hurt a lot throughout the game.

E+R Changes: TL;DR E damage is down. E won't be any more difficult to determine Wukong's target and already blocks skill shots. R got a nice QOL.

Here are some quick suggestions for solutions to above mentioned problems. First of all decide whether Wukong is a weak laner with a strong team fight presence or a laner who can 1v1 with a decent team fighting ulti. Currently there is this pseudo-shift to laning power overshadowed by laning nerfs that is not properly compensated in team fighting. A shift towards a weak laner may be in the form of reducing the bonus damage stacking and making it accessible to the entire team. This may make ulti become a multi damage type Amumu ulti and therefor may be a less desirable option. A shift towards a laner who can hold his own may be to allow his clone to move on its own similar to Shaco ulti. Another option could be to leave his resistances on passive in 1v1 while giving a bonus to 3+ enemies.

Although I am not entirely on board with the current direction of these changes, I think with proper number adjustments it could be viable as a bruiser Wukong, but lethality builds will never again see the light of day in a serious setting. The biggest issues with these changes are the reduction in laning ability while also requiring longer trading patterns and the over nerfing of damage with little to compensate.

 Thank you for reading.  I am sure I missed a lot and misinterpreted some of the changes so feedback and opinions would be apprec
PyroPls10/23/2019, 9:53:42 PM3 votes

I remember you guys mentioned there would be some small animation/vfx work, is that still planned? Will he be getting any slight visual adjustment beyond this?

Guts Man10/23/2019, 11:33:14 PM3 votes

I noticed you mentioned "or top lane main" - will the changes still make Wukong mid viable? I think a lot of Wukong mains found success in the mid lane, and would like to maintain that. I also think that makes sense if you're trying not to invalidate the lethality build.

Speaking of building lethality, why not make Q physical damage and W magic damage? If the lethality (and even items like LDR and BC) are to remain viable, shouldn't the physical damage be on his reliable skill, rather than the unreliable (standing clone...) skill?

Just some thoughts and questions around the rework. I would like Wukong to be able to be able to flex into a bruiser top or assassin mid. But that's just my two cents.

Majix10/24/2019, 4:02:53 AM2 votes

I love everything about this. I would love to see what his E is going to look like: how easy is it to distinguish between his clones etc and how long do the clones from E stick around.

I would really like it if ALL wukong clones dashed to a single target enemy personally. That way, after wukong dashes to a target, it isn't clear which clone he is vs when he dashes to a champion in a minion wave obviously the one who dashed to the champion is Wukong.

EyesOfTheFox11/7/2019, 11:16:02 AM2 votes

@Riot Lutzburg

New Passive - Needs an increase in defensive stats (he's still way to squish). Not a fan of the range bonus on the passive.

New Passive [Changes I would like to see] - Increased defensive stats (perhaps starting bonus at 2+ enemies to help when ganks happen), remove range bonus, add "create a clone in place whenever he uses an ability that will attack the next target that comes within their range (damage and health of clones scales with armor and mr, not health because there are too many ad items with health attached to be fair and wouldn't create a weakness or tradeoff based on the rest of my outlined changes). Towers can still tell the difference (Past Akali I'm looking at you), but I would be open to testing towers targeting the clone (could potentially be unfun for other players though).

New Q - Considering he has to hit his W or E on a target to get the extra damage this is also a weaker ability. While the sustain is nice, losing reliable damage is going to hurt him in the long run.

New Q [Changes I would like to see] - Give the extended range back in the form of a charged skill shot, increasing in range the longer the ability is charged, dealing damage to all enemies in line and increased damage at the tip (possibly a small knockup if the center of the target at the tip is hit). I like the healing so perhaps keep that only from targets hit by the tip. He can move while charging this ability. Restore the AD ratio. This would be fun to use and give a sense of him slamming the pole down. "Power pole extend!!!"

New W - (Since this is basically replacing his old E) Noticeably weaker as the fact that it no longer hits three targets really hurts his wave clear and pretty much kills any jungle/pushing power he used to have. The removal of the attack speed buff also hurts his damage output. There's also not really a reason for him to leave a clone behind as chances are there isn't going to be anything there for him to attack on most occasions (which is why I added it to his passive change I'd like to see and added control to those clones via the E change I'd like to see).

New W [Changes I would like to see] - Since the new W is basically the old E, give back the attack speed buff. Keeping the invisible and dash (directional skillshot with clickable target after dash similar to Ekko) add the passive change I'd like to see (which would create a clone in place after he uses an ability).

New E - Being able to direct the clones and also have it act as a windwall of sorts is really cool and has the ability to increase his outplay potential.

New E [Changes I would like to see] - Control the direction all clones will strike (skill shot direction). Will also control any clones created by the passive change I'd like to see (acting similar to Azir's control over his sand soldiers), Using this ability will prioritize champions (still will hit creeps and jungle mobs if no champion is available to target). Each clone will target a different individual champion if more than one champion is in range (to keep it fair). So the fewer champions around the more damage will be done to the single champion, the more champions around the less damage each champion would take. Perhaps limiting the number of clones to the amount of points in the ability, since my proposed passive change would auto create a clone, then the rank one of this ability would create one plus the one from the passive. Instead of an AD ratio, dmg could scale with armor and mr as there are too many health items with ad attached to be a weakness should he choose to build ad vs tank). So building defensively would mean you want to max E first, but building AD means you would want to max Q first. Creating play styles that actually are reflected by what you build and what you need for the team. Range would have to be limited so he isn't too safe using this into certain matchups.

By having each of his abilities create a clone via the passive change I proposed this would allow for some really fun strikes with his E passive change I proposed. Could also help him out of a sticky situation if played right (ie ability use juking with the Q skill shot) or building glass cannon. I think this would give people a choice of either maxing Q for lane, or possibly E for jungle use for the extra clone strike damage and wave clear, The changes I suggested I think would increase the fun potential while still allowing forothers to have outplay potential (being able to dodge the Q since my suggestion would be making it a skill shot). I feel these changes allow for a higher skill expression and make him a more appealing pick at all ranks.

Not sure if this will be read retroactively but I would love to hear from @Riot Lutzburg on my suggestions.

Wukοng11/10/2019, 12:26:20 PM2 votes

Finally something is done with MonkeyKing..

Only thing I dislike in that list, is the AP on Q. Please revert it back to AD scaling.

Could potentially also give him a stun (Q) on large monsters for better clear, especially for the Scuttle crab.

I truly hope you guys go through with your word this time, and actually get him updated before the year ends!

RogueEldar11/13/2019, 9:28:26 AM2 votes

WUKONG REWORK: MonkeyKing My first main in league of legends…….. Its so good to see a rework coming for him. What are the planned changes that were discussed in the dev boards and the gameplay release on PBE 5 months ago be taken for the rework for the upcoming work on wukong. MY THOUGHTS ON WUKONGS REWORK:

PASSIVE: Probably the best out of all the abilities in his kit.Crushing blow stacks is gr8 for both jgling and lane. But I think that Crushing blows should stay on the passive rather than moved to q because we will be forced to wait for lvl 2 or even lvl 3(if in jg we take w for clear on lvl 2) to go for trades or all-in if the enemy makes a move.

2nd Part - Instead of giving him armor and magic resistance, getting some damage reduction and tenacity is also nice. OR gaining base stats is also good. He can teamfight better with base stats. Also, can we have a different animation for his passive autos from his Q's animation? Q: To be honest, the heal itself is merely present. It heals for like 10-20 hp on minions and max 30 on champions. That is less healing that a Ryze auto dmg. Even at max rank the healing will be a maximum of 50-75 for a 250 AD wukong. 75HP heal at lvls higher than 10 is nothing for a HP pool of 1500 and above. Also, the magic damage is not that significant as it is only a max of 50-100 dmg that can be countered with a little bit of extra HP build.

MY THOUGHTS FOR Q: I'm not asking for it to CC and I understand that it is not playstyle. But instead, give it scaling based on your mistakes or usage (as Wukongs theme is to learn from his mistakes). Maybe scale auto range to 300-350 based on levels or damage dealt to enemy damage stats (somewhat like Kaisa upgrades.... empowering wukong to upgrade his staff's range as game goes on) or anything like that. You can even make his Q a skillshot like Yasuo to balance out the changes. Remove healing from his kit and give it somewhere else. Even if it is not healing, some kind of sustain would be appreciated somewhere else in his kit (like W).

W: If Wukong is designed to be a trickster, then the clone should be moving atleast, to deceive your opponents. Not like Neeko or Leblanc clone but lets say it can follow AND AUTO enemies till a range (350-400) then disappear. Targetting champions is not necessary, just the recent target attacked by original wukong will suffice. Im saying this because, if the target is moving and the clone has no way to deal damage, then the purpose of giving clones auto damage is going to be a waste. This upgrade will let wukong deal damage to enemies through clone while he can choose to retreat using the invisibility or break his invisibility to fight with the clone to confuse your opponents even more. Also, the sustain can be added when the clone disappears, either healing or providing a shield or anything like that

E: Perfect as it is. If the attack speed is intact, then it will help in stacking passives more easily while also serving as a gap closer ( as wukong is a diver) Also, the use of his clones that can block skillshots is actually useless even if they search for more radius around their target because the dash speed is fairly high and the clones disappear too fast before the enemies could even react to the E animation. So basically, it just serves as a 650 unit gap closer. So if anything that could be done to the clones without disturbing the clones would be gr8.

R: The utility change is absolutely wonderful. But the tick rate for his R is so low enemies can summoner 4 or blink/dash out of the range just after the knockup. Also, that the first tick’s damage is not even dealt properly when knocked up. (situation when E-Q-R is done but the R’s first tick is negated by a timed item 3157, item 2420 or something line that).

MY THOUGHTS for R: Let his R use the attack speed granted by his E, so that while engaging, wukong can actually use his E’s attackspeed. It scaling may be like Garen E where his damage is dealt in a faster tick rate with scaling attack speed. Also, since he uses his staff for his ult and Q, he should be able to apply his learnings from past to his ult, the same way he does for Q (as mentioned above). So maybe he his staff grows a bit longer of his ultimate’s level, so that even if people flash out, they will still be in range for damage 1 or 2 more ticks before going out of range. The range may scale from 315 – 450/500 based on levels.

STATS CHANGES: Since he's designed to be a bruiser, his stats should also be changed. Health: 582 (+87 per level) HP regen: 7.5 (+0.8 per level) Armor & Mr no change (since passive is providing) AD: 67 (+4.2 per level)

These are my thoughts for Wukong’s Rework. Im so excited to see a wukong’s rework go live so that he will become viable against the top tanks and bruisers and give them a run for the money. Thanks, Riot Meddler and Lutzberg