Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 23

RiotMeddler·6/23/2017, 4:54:44 PM·1 votes·65,405 views

Hey all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Some more 10 ban data

We did a bit more analysis of the impact of 10 bans earlier this week. Particularly interesting there was the distribution of how many unique champs are banned per game, which ended up being a higher number than expected. Two key data points from that below, bear in mind that these are averages though and will vary based off your MMR and the server you play on:

  • Around 70% of games have 9 or 10 unique champions banned
  • Less than 1% of games have 5 or 6 unique champions banned

We'll keep monitoring how ban usage changes over time of course, so more info to follow again at some point. Overall we're still really happy with how the revised ban system in matchmade games has gone, particularly the amount its sped up getting into game (lets players spend a larger proportion of their time on the more fun bits).


More Runes info probably next week

We've got another dev blog on the new runes system, looking at some more details of how the system works, along with talking about some more specific runes, some of which are brand new and some of which are existing masteries that have been converted over. That blog probably comes out next week


Cho'Gath

Looks like we should be able to ship those previously mentioned Cho changes in 7.14. What we're currently testing there is changing E to an active rather than a toggle, where it empowers Cho's next three auto attacks with the AOE spikes that deal % max enemy hp as magic damage and apply a decaying slow. CD's really short when leveled. Goals there include giving Cho a more juggernaut like damage profile (able to hurt beefier front lines better if they're all he can reach), putting a bit more interaction into use of the E and adding a bit of power.


Singed

Changes won't be shipping in 7.13 after all. We want to make building damage a better choice, but don't feel we've got the right changelist for that yet. Going to be exploring passive modifications for 7.14, though not guaranteed we'll necessarily ship anything (this is still budgeted as balance work, not an update, though one of those at some point could make some sense too).


Lethality Item Changes

Should also be in 7.14 based off current progress. Key changes current being tested include:

  • Serrated Dirk/Poacher's Dirk - Removing the out of combat movement speed and instead giving it a passive where after killing a large minion, monster or champion your next damaging spell against a champion deals 50 bonus damage. Goals of adding a bit of optimization to its use and removing the need to put out of combat MS on everything it builds into.

  • Duskblade - No longer has out of combat movement speed, proc damage a flat number (so a more viable first item), has CDR and a very brief slow on application of the Nightstalker proc (think Trundle Q like) plus a cost reduction. Looking to make it a reasonable alternative to Ghostblade as a first major item.

  • Ghostblade - More OOC MS, less AD. Cementing this as the strategic mobility choice.

  • Black Cleaver - Testing an internal cooldown on how quickly you can add stacks to an opponent (0.5s at present). Aiming to preserve its impact for slow/regular speed stackers, while making it less dominant on those with sufficiently split up physical damage it gets stacked almost instantly.

As per usual, this stuff's not finalized and more details to come.

252 Comments

CrabPeopleReform6/23/2017, 4:59:14 PM44 votes

Draven item 3812 pls opinion

Buffy4326/23/2017, 4:57:38 PM23 votes

Is there any update on Deaths Dance? I'm noticing it making champions tanky that aren't really supposed to be.

OceanicEyes6/23/2017, 6:17:44 PM11 votes

Hey Meddler!

I'm a vehemently passionate Cho'gath main, and I am very interested in these changes and would like to give my feedback.

Other than his ultimate, Cho's E is actually my favorite ability. It's definitely boring compared to other abilities, but I love it for its potential melee damage (I love maxing it first), allowing you to outrade almost anyone in melee range, and easier last hitting to make your passive extremely reliable.

The changes you're proposing to his E really interest me. For starters, I play and consider Cho'gath as an AP juggernaut, so seeing changes steering him in this direction is something I can appreciate. I will make mention that many Cho mains do prefer his full AP playstyle, so it is worth talking with all of his mains before steering him into one direction.

Nevertheless, I myself am interested in the E changes as they add more to his E than just a toggle. It sounds like it can add some great burst, a window against Cho when E is on cooldown (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), and more motivation for players to stay away from range of this deadly void titan.

My main concern with E, however, is potential mana costs. I stay healthy with mana and hp in lane by being very conservative with Q and W, while relying on current E as my main tool. I just hope that I can keep a similar playstyle where I can preserve my abilities for when I need utility in trades.

Thanks for the update on Cho!

Tormentula6/23/2017, 5:18:55 PM9 votes

Skarner

What are the odds of him getting a rek'sai/azir/aatrox update in the future?

He's not fine and been one of the worst champions longer than volibear.

IxtaliKing6/23/2017, 5:15:55 PM9 votes

A couple questions:

  • Since there will no longer be class updates, how will the smaller reworks be handled? Will they be done 1 at a time, or will the Live team be working on a few champs simultaneously?

  • Will there be a small rework tier/priority list, like we have for VGUs?

Kind Riven6/23/2017, 6:43:55 PM7 votes

Youmuus is weak already, why reduce it's AD more... You also nerfed Black Cleaver already several times, it doesn't need more nerfs, take a look at DD instead of BC and Ghostblade..

iahim986/23/2017, 6:56:34 PM5 votes

Hi meddler, are there any more changes planed for AD Kennen , the only change I saw was a small nerf to W dmg for him, do you think is enough or do you have plans for item 3022 so you only nerfed him a little this time?

Also can we get a range indicator for his W when we hit a champion like Twitch E or Urgot E+Q?

EROTIC RAID BOSS6/23/2017, 7:15:40 PM5 votes

That black cleaver change would be awfully shitty for illaoi

Blue Moon Wolf6/23/2017, 5:31:06 PM5 votes

What are the plans for Divers who might have been worked on for the diver update?

FeAR THe Reηg06/23/2017, 10:11:07 PM5 votes

What about Rengar? Are you planning anything for him? Riot please dont forget Rengar us !

Justíce Reformed6/24/2017, 12:19:22 AM4 votes

If you guys are messing around with ghost blade and black cleaver, may i ask your thoughts on Garen regarding theses changes? Both are excellent items on him so i'm curious.

Dark Star Cho6/23/2017, 5:58:29 PM4 votes

Well, I'm glad to see Riot is doing something aside from nerfing his silence or buffing his ult but i really hope to see current E as passive stay, and active be similar to suggested, in cooldown passive is not in effect, this was a pretty critical part of thunderlords harass or dft harass.

Oh, the other day animations were mentioned for cho, will his Q and W be cleaned up for more consistent results?

In addition tripple dorans removal hurt cho's ability to sustain vs pretty much any ad matchup, perhaps a passive readjustment or look at mana costs, base mana regen, or base mana pool.

Finally, the mention of juggernaut, for years Chogath has been a 'middle of the pack' and 'no true class' champion, is this a declaration that Riot has decided on the path they want to take for him moving forward? Will he still have his identity of long cooldown high impact skills or will he eventually be reworked to be more in line with other juggernauts (Darius coming to mind for some reason as the AD counterpart)

Cronovey6/23/2017, 8:03:17 PM4 votes

Any chance we can see the circle that Nautilus, Udyr, and Yasuo have on targets they've recently used their passive, Bear Stance, or Sweeping Blade on added to Jarvan for his passive?

Nothing seriously important, but a nice little QoL change. Instead of having to click on my target to see the debuff, he seems like a perfect candidate for this type of interaction. It would help with his laning and target selection quite a bit knowing which targets he can get the most damage out on at a time.

Shadowrudude6/23/2017, 10:09:06 PM4 votes

Is Riot ever gonna comment on the state of Rengar? He's at Azir/Rek'sai status in that he's really good in competitive play, but actually trash for SoloQ, the exact OPPOSITE situation a champion like Rengar SHOULD be in, cuz of how his kit was. Instead you've made it extremely clunky, then "balanced" it by having extreme numbers, which only happens if your snowball is rolling, and ANY champ would perform when their snowball is rolling, but in Rengars case it's REQUIRED you snowball . If you guys honestly felt that partially-reverting Kog'maw's rework was the healthiest way to fix his problems and the ones he was making, then you guys honestly have no real reason to not revert Rengar. I'm the only Rengar I ever see in my games, and I only pick him when I miss playing him or if I don't mind throwing the game for my teammates, and I should NEVER feel like picking a champ is detrimental for my team, especially when they would have been a perfect fit. You guys don't even have him classified as an assassin anymore, you made him a fucking diver AGAINST the will of every Rengar main on the planet. Did Rengar dive people before? Yeah, if he could one-shot them and get out. Now you build a plethora of tank items and just tank the turret instead, and that's just fucked up. Q isn't even a damage skill anymore, the highest utility AND damage come from a double-E cast...

Sire Hippington6/23/2017, 10:14:22 PM4 votes

Cho'Gath

The issue of cho is not that he does to little once in range, his issue is that he lacks any somewhat reliable way of gettign there, Befor the W changes and Rylais nerfs, the W + Rylais gave a reliable silence+slow that allowed to setup Q which when allowed to get into range. But W no longer is reliable on high range or vs mobile targets, and Rylais has lost half it's slow for cho ontop of the reduced stats.

No wonder people don't feel tanky anymore if we slap % damage and other anti tank mechanics on everything as if it solves all issues. In S2, the only tank with % damage was amumu, and later Zac, while by now every single tankish champ has % damage or some%pen/shred/truedamage, all while mages and adc do rather more than less dps... If you really feel the need to use %damage on tankish champs to keep them relevant in their output, then reduce the dps of mages/adc or power of anti tank items, because tankling all that %damage and shit on top of the dedicated DDs does not work.

Lethality Item Changes

Wouldn't it make more sense to have duskblade as strategic mobillity item with OOC MS since it's ward detection/disable already offers strategic value and points towards roaming, while Yomuu's active has more tactical value by granting in combat mobillity. Also, even less ad from lethality items when the damage especially later on feels a bit lackluster with those builts allready? Aren't assasins supposed to be a meaningfull damage source?

And the BC changes also would hurt Assasins alot, as they currently rely on BC for their builts and they would loose alot of stacks on their combo with that change.

zippyHD6/23/2017, 5:14:08 PM3 votes

I am crying everytime i see Meddler posting a "Quick Gameplay Thoughts" but there is no details on Leblanc :*(

Spideraxe6/23/2017, 4:57:48 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask for which Divers would you guys give one of those gameplay updates now that you guys canned class updates

WiegrafOfValor6/23/2017, 9:44:23 PM3 votes

#Serrated Dirk/Poacher's Dirk - Removing the out of combat movement speed and instead giving it a passive where after killing a large minion, monster or champion your next damaging spell against a champion deals 50 bonus damage. Goals of adding a bit of optimization to its use and removing the need to put out of combat MS on everything it builds into.

You mean that when Riven Fiora Yasuo Pantheon come back to lane after their first buy, pre-6 they will be doing +50 damage on their poke? Please keep the out of fight MS

Jackom16/23/2017, 7:27:30 PM2 votes

Regarding cho, have you also explored the option of his base kit getting bonus damage based on the amount of stacks he has. Or even just having some of his basic abilities scale with bonus health?