Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 29

RiotMeddler·8/29/2017, 4:40:47 PM·1 votes·69,244 views

Morning all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Inspiration Keystones

Guess most of you have seen them already, for anyone that hasn't we put out some details this week about a couple of the more unusual keystones from the new runes system. Mentioning this again since we're still hunting for the third keystone from that tree (Inspiration) and ideas would be much appreciated.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/4KAg8Y1F-runes-corner-summoner-specialist-and-hextech-freezeray

Traits of inspiration:

  • Non direct damage or tankiness
  • Allows some degree of rule breaking, more so than other trees
  • Can include kiss/curse effects
  • Tends to offer adaptability more than raw power

Traits of keystones:

  • The most powerful runes
  • Tactically relevant - they'll have some impact on how you play moment to moment and can be optimized more than other runes. You're rewarded for continuing to think about them a fair bit post champ select. Some other runes by contrast are more an optimization choice in champ select you don't need to put though into much once the game's started.
  • They can modify a champion's playstyle somewhat, they shouldn't dictate it however.
  • They should be applicable to at least a moderate number of champions (not too niche), while at the same time not be extremely attractive to everyone.
  • You only get one, so there's a really high opportunity cost to them. That means they can have some very game influencing stuff, like being able to swap Summoner Spells, because you've giving up a lot of other power for them. Being able to go from Exhaust/Ignite early to Flash/TP late's strong, giving up the equivalent of Fervor or Thunderlord's however's a pretty meaningful price in combat power to pay.

Ornn

Note: I'm writing this Friday morning, so by the time this post goes up it's possible some of this is out of date, in particular if we hotfix between now and then.

Ornn's currently struggling quite a bit, and we're looking at what circumstances he performs well in and which poorly. At the same time we do expect him to have a pretty significant learning curve and want to try and avoid buffing him too much early on if that'll cause problems down the line (as we overbuffed Ivern in retrospect for example, who also had a pretty sizeable learning curve). We also suspect that Ornn's teams's performance is being dragged down a bit by people rushing the upgraded items he makes available in the wrong circumstances (e.g. going Triforce when it's not the right choice for your champ, or rushing the upgraded Abyssal Mask too early). At the same time Ornn's also got some lower than usual base stats, so it's possible we might want to bump those up a bit at some point, whether in a hotfix or a regular patch.

Tuesday morning update: Adding a bit extra here, rather than just editing the original post, to try and keep things a bit simpler for some of the other regions translating this stuff. We did indeed conclude Ornn was too weak last Friday and gave him a range of base stat buffs and an ult CD buff. He's performing better, though still looks on the weak side. Next step's going to be looking at his passive, in particular ways it's baiting at least some people into poor item choices. Should see some changes on the PBE shortly looking to change that (upgraded items not available until Ornn's a certain level being the starting point). We'll then be assessing how his performance is going over the course of the week, see if we need to make other changes in the next patch or before.


More Spectator Cleanup

Now that the changes to various team indicators have been out in spectator for a while we'll be taking a pass at another round of spectator clean up sometime moderately soon. Goal there is to make it as easy as possible to pick out the important information, in particular in busy team fights that can be really hard to follow. Our next targets are likely to be hiding small amounts of gold income from spectator (e.g. the +1 or +3 from Bandit don't communicate anything meaningful) and hiding some crit text from spectator (no one needs to see spells critting minions for small amounts of magic damage for example).

Other suggestions here most welcomed. Asked about this a while back and got some good suggestions that we got into the 7.16 patch, hoping to find a few more things again, either that are shown in spectator and don't need to be or aren't shown and would be valuable enough to add to justify making it harder to see other stuff.

527 Comments

kirocuto8/29/2017, 5:24:15 PM30 votes

New Rune: Extended Return Policy: User can sell items back to the shop for the price they paid for them.

Would be really cool to see a Kennen switch between AP and AD as the situation changes, or Kayle selling her support items to carry late game, tanks like J4 selling armor for AD and surprising the enemy carry or knowing they can safely commit to more damage until it stops being relevant. Supports min/maxing the value of their active items by swapping them around will probably be the main use of this given that they probably already value the tree, but that extra level of power/flexibility seems balanced given that they have to go back to shop to use it (tho I could also see Orn abusing this with regen items...)

DarkRitual8/29/2017, 5:04:25 PM22 votes

Keystone: Going out with a bang. Whenever you are killed, you create a blast that deals X + Y damage (adaptive) in an area around you 2 seconds after your death (special case for zombie passives of course).

Hextech Multitool Cooldown of Hextech items you purchase is reduced by 5 seconds. Also Hextech items you own have individual cooldowns instead of sharing a cooldown.

Black Market Access Card You can buy Stealth Wards and Mana Potions, as well as a select number of other items otherwise unavailable (rebalanced items previously removed, or unique new items, lots of choices).

ModCaptainMårvelous8/29/2017, 7:05:32 PM14 votes

How about something to deal with CC for champs?

#Will of the Boards

For each CC effect you take in the span of <x> seconds (Could scale or be flat), you gain increasing CC resistance (INCLUDING DISPLACEMENT), up to 100% for <x> seconds.

Why this?: Melee champions often struggle with CC. In fact, because of this, melee champions are often invalidated or just locked down and blown up. With a keystone like this, melee champions have a counter to heavy CC teams. Also tenacity kind of blows right now so it'd be nice to have the option to have something that defeats CC.

Who is this for?: Primarily bruisers and (gasp) melee carries. The main weakness these champions often face is being easily locked down and blown up before they can do anything. With this keystone, they have the option to specialize against massive CC teams as well as retain some of their build strength without having to forfeit all their damage for defense to survive.

What if ranged champs take this!?: Easy solutions:

  • Make it have a reduced effect on ranged champs.
  • Ranged champs will lose out on damage keystones, which hurts them more than melee champions who tend to have stronger kits.
  • Either way, it should vary based on Heavy CC comps, not just singular CC comps.
GerAvos8/29/2017, 5:37:59 PM13 votes

Keystone idea: Replace recall with some new thing.

Lengarion8/29/2017, 6:08:41 PM9 votes

About ornn: I really love playing him but there are a few things that really hold him back.

  1. his q costs way too much mana - how do you survive top against ranged champs like jayce

  2. his w shield has no base scaling like other tanks - in early game fights you think after pressing w you would get a decent shield (like nautilus w/mao heal/j4 w). 12% is just nothing early - give it some decent base scaling. Would also make trinity force build more fun to play even if its abit troll

  3. his e hitbox is too low - I know I will learn it in some time but if you smartcast your e you often miss the wall even tho it looks like it hits

  4. His ult is a fking god and should be coded as a minion - not a projectile that can be blocked by yasuo w.

Would be nice if we see some of those changes in the game.

PokladnicaZla8/29/2017, 7:07:54 PM8 votes

Could we please add Healing and Shielding Power values to ability tooltips?

Made this thread a few days ago: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/b1Q4K1au-riot-why-doesnt-healing-and-shielding-power-have-its-own-value-in-ability-tooltip

World Ender8/29/2017, 4:52:42 PM8 votes

How's progress going on Aatrox's update? Still expected to be after preseason I'm sure. Curious if it's going to be early season 8 or closer to midseason (or even after that item 3070 )

LostFr0st8/29/2017, 5:33:09 PM8 votes

Wondering if part o the problem with Ornn's item upgrades is them being in the first block of the recommended.

Idk if you guys can, but there is likely a win% difference between people with item sets (Ornn block is last) and those without (Ornn block is first).

SzGamer2278/29/2017, 5:31:10 PM4 votes

I feel like the third Inspiration keystone should be about mobility and/or deceit, since the goal of the Inspiration tree is to outmaneuver opponents.

Anyways, a problem I see with the Inspiration keystones is that they would require you to invest a large number of your runes into areas that don't benefit your champion's durability or damage. Lesser Inspiration runes would be great as secondary picks after you have a solid investment in your champion's combat power, but taking an Inspiration keystone means you also have to take a handful of other Inspiration runes and leaving only a couple of slots for strengths that synergize directly with a champion's core strengths. You can only have so many runes that give you adaptability before you have no real power to apply once you've outmaneuvered your opponent.

Arthastheiceking8/29/2017, 4:52:50 PM4 votes

Hello, this was mentioned in the patch chat 7.17

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=gbAKMKGa,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2017-08-24T23:58:31.525+0000)

Nothing's in quite yet but live gameplay's looking to either buff Rengar or Warrior. We're not sure which yet (or if it'll happen for 7.18).

Did you come to a conclusion or are you still doing work?

smug jinx main8/29/2017, 5:36:26 PM3 votes

Hey meddler, so I have been trying to figure out why the ADC meta shifts more drastically than any other role (IMO) (ex: Caitlin is strong at 54% win rate and when lethality gets a slight buff or Cait's AS is nerfed ever so slightly, it almost completely changes the popular and strong picks). Can I get your opinion on why the ADC's are all over the place in terms of playability?

Edit: i do think ADC's are balanced right now I am mostly talking about when someone goes from a 55% win rate to 45% in 2-3 patches like lucian

Rovert duBelmont8/29/2017, 5:52:26 PM1 votes

I saw a mention in the thread of tweaking vision as a possible keystone route (enhanced wards and such). Does that have any potential?

Kloqdq8/29/2017, 4:48:20 PM1 votes

Hey Meddler, when can we expect Pre-season changes starting to role out? And can you hint at any of the possible changes that may be coming in those changes?