Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 26

RiotMeddler·10/26/2018, 3:56:44 PM·1 votes·164,515 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Runes we're looking at

We're working on some runes, with the goal of shipping some changes during preseason. Run through of what we're trying below:

Changes we're pretty confident in

  • Dark Harvest - Triggers when you damage a champion below 50% health, dealing bonus damage. Damage increases each time its triggered. Long ish (45s right now) CD>

Makes it more of a finisher, reducing power as poke or genuine one shot (single attack/ability) rune, since it can't trigger on healthy targets. Keeps its stacking nature as a point of difference from other damage runes.

  • Overgrowth - Gives flat HP per X nearby deaths, with an additional % HP boost after a certain flat HP total has been earned.

Should be more appealing to a wider range of users, rather than just HP stackers as per the current % increase only. In retrospect we over corrected for this looking too appealing to everyone during Runes original development. Should help Resolve be a more attractive secondary tree as a result. Mixture of flat and % HP helps us tune for a wider range of different users.


Changes we're not yet as confident in (need more discussion and testing)

  • Bone Plating - Potential Removal

Bone Plating's a really strong Rune, even if it's not always recognized as such. It also demands more attention than we think's generally appropriate for a regular rune, given both user and opponent(s) in lane should be tracking its CD.

  • Shield Bash - New Resolve rune that makes your next basic attack when you've got a shield deal bonus damage, based off your health and the shield amount.

We want Resolve to be a tree that offers both survivability and gives you other benefits based off your defensive stats (Demolish being a good existing example). Shield Bash is an exploration into that, with champs who get shields, whether from their kit, allies or items, being a broad enough pool to offer a moderate sized user base for a Rune. Still looking in particular into how to split power between offensive and defensive effects (e.g. how much should Shield Bash increase shield amount versus deal damage?).

  • Klepto - Changes to make it useful to a wider audience and less mandatory on Ezreal

Might just involve changing CD, drop rate etc. Might also involve larger changes to how you trigger it, rewards given as well. Still pretty experimental and changing rapidly, hence nothing on the PBE yet.

  • Celerity - Amplifies other movement speed boosts, instead of providing some constant MS and damage off MS

Looking to make it more of a choice, less general power, particularly less of a general damage contribution. Not sure yet if increasing the power of other hastes gives us sufficient balancing levers for best case users versus others (e.g. if balanced for Rammus, Hecarim etc is it just terrible on almost everyone else?)

  • Chrysalis - Assessing if still needed

We originally added Chrysalis to open up the Resolve tree to a wider audience. At the time the trade off in going Resolve was pretty steep for some users, given the forced HP from tree stats. We wanted to offer a mixed early defense/later offense option to help with that. Given there'll be freedom to pick your stats from preseason onwards however that need's reduced a lot. Going to reassess Chrysalis as a result.

Yorick in 8.21

We’ve seen Yorick’s winrate drop dramatically in 8.21 off no major gameplay changes. In cases like this that often means a newly introduced pretty impactful bug. That seems particularly likely given we rescripted some of how Yorick’s ult works behind the scenes this patch to fix some other issues, so something unintended could have occured during that work. Looking into what’s going on there right now it seems like there’s probably a bug with his ghoul’s damage in some circumstances. Aiming to get that hotfixed as soon as possible, though not quite sure at time of writing when that will be. Might be done already by the time this is posted, if not hopefully later today.

Edit since time of writing: Got hotfixed yesterday afternoon. Was an issue where summoning the Maiden would reset his ghouls's to their level 1 values instead of being properly based off Yorick's level.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

302 Comments

SnugglePuggle9410/26/2018, 4:38:44 PM15 votes

#RevertRunesReforged

This stupid system needs to go!! We want our old runes and masteries back!

#REVERT

Guts Man10/26/2018, 4:25:35 PM13 votes

Hi Meddler,

Any chance you could state your opinion on Wukong's state?

Wukong was nerfed pretty hard (Q and E), especially in comparison to the nerfs done to Irelia and Graves. He was given an 8% attack speed buff after that to bring some power back.

What are your thoughts in his current state? Was he nerfed so harshly because he is a difficult champion to balance?

I think Wukong mains are pretty frustrated, not only because of the nerfs but because of the lack of information / opinion on his state. Check out r/Wukongmains for reference.

Thanks. Hope some info on his state can be released soon.

DCYOUNG88810/26/2018, 4:01:43 PM12 votes

Will the bruiser items return to this pbe preseason patch?

lol you wild wyd10/26/2018, 4:02:47 PM12 votes

Sup, I have been peeking some of the current PBE changes and the earlier start times in parallel with the "games will finish faster" goal of the preseason; I am getting the vibe that Riot wants to slowly remove the strategic aspect of League of Legends and turn into an all out team-deathmatch. In my opinion this is one pillar of League that HAS to always exist. Thoughts?

Victorious Riven10/26/2018, 4:14:35 PM11 votes

What are your thoughts on black cleaver Meddleritem 3071 . There,s been alot of black cleaver posts lately about black cleaver beeing so bad for us from riven reddit. now that its almost pre season is there a possibility you guys can change black cleaver back to its old build patch with warhammeritem 3133 and phageitem 3044 . its rlly rlly hurts having to delay BC by 1100item 3133 because we NEED our dmg . we dont need hp.

Uniia10/26/2018, 8:46:46 PM8 votes

Resolve often feels pretty bad to make as main path because the first row only has situational runes and shield bash definitely isnt helping that. On the other hand the middle row has 2 really generic and good runes in second wind and conditioning. Any chance one of those could be swapped into top row? It just feels super meh to take demolish(a win more rune) in a losing matchup when you just want something that actually helps in fighting against a champion.

Flemman10/26/2018, 4:15:54 PM8 votes

Can you still stack overgrowth after getting the % hp boost or is it over past that point?

Adalvar10/26/2018, 4:07:34 PM8 votes

Hi Meddler...now that the issues with Ezreal and Lissandra are finished, i'd like to talk about another point on my personal bucket list: item 3027

Currently, the item takes too long to scale up and the pay off at the end isn't really worth it (less mana compared to other mana options and not that much AP). It's gotten to the point where champs that had this as a core item are slowly dropping it. Would you consider tweaking it's passive around so that you gain some added benefit upon reaching the 10 minute stacking mark?

One relatively simple idea would be to shift the damage aura of item 3001 (which doesn't make a lick of sense to belong in a tank item) and place it on item 3027 as a reward for fully stacking the item (which would make a heck of alot more sense due to it's nature as a scaling item).

Your thoughts on the issue and suggestion?

Hügö10/28/2018, 11:46:00 AM6 votes

I can tell you right here and right now. With the introduction of shield bash shit like Riven or Urgot will be broken af.

Why do you need to put more and more and more damage into the game? Why not make it a defensive rune in the DEFENSIVE TREE?

Shield Bash: When you have a shield you get a % amount of armor and mr. The % amount will make tanks stronger while things like riven won't benefit to much from it.

Buff Riven Plz10/26/2018, 5:08:21 PM6 votes

Any thoughts on changing the scaling cdr rune? Its the rune that give you 1-10CDR depending on level, from levels 1-18? Any plans on changing this?

Sire Hippington10/26/2018, 9:33:15 PM6 votes

Dark Harvest

Not really sure it will do much for it, not because the change is bad but because electrucute still exists. EC jus is save and reliable aditional burst, so unless Dark Harvests Numbers are simply busted by comparison, it will always stay the default option for aditional burst. As long as we have EC, other burst runes need to offer something other than burst in adition to not be plain better or worse, Predator is a succesfull example.

Overgrowth - Gives flat HP per X nearby deaths, with an additional % HP boost after a certain flat HP total has been earned.

Not a bad thing, but be carefull to not remove to much scaleing options for tanks, tankiness already feels bad later into the game(though that's more an issue of overscaleing damage and mostly an overabundance of anti tank mechanics, especially truedamage since conqueror and %dammage on about everyone)

Bone Plating - Potential Removal

I don't feel like Boneplating is to strong, atleast if you actually play around it similar to yasuos shield. The reason it's used that much is more because people desperatly want more survivabillity, especially for the early lane, and boneplateing is about the only option we have for that. Also, Demolish is often not an ideal choice as it requires you getting quallity time with an tower, which for many champs usually only happens when their with their team in which case towers drop more than fast enough allready, and font of Live is rather specific and doesn't help your self at all, so since BP is the only actuall tradeing too in that row and also the about only rune for early survivabillity it's the go to option.

Shield Bash [...] We want Resolve to be a tree that offers both survivability and gives you other benefits based off your defensive stats

For me, Resolve should be the option for survivabillity, not damage. Haveing other effects based on tankiness like Font of Life or The tower damage from Demolish is fine aswell, But i really don't think resolve should offer much damage, we have 3 other trees that do that. Rather add more tank suited damage options on those trees(like cheap shot), and keep resolve mostly for tankiness and some utillity. Again, we have 3 trees focused on damage, we do not need more damage in the one single tree that is supposed to offer tankiness. I still think the keystones also should focus more on tankiness rather than adding more damage to tanks. There actuall is not one keystone that offers pure tankiness for sololaners... Also, are you guys fine with Grasp? I still think the stacking mechanic should be changed, either to have a hard cap that is realisitic to reach even in bad matchups. Depending on the lane matchup, you can easily have a difference from 100-200hp, which imo is a bit much fluctoation for a keystone.

Celerity... Looking to make it more of a choice

I don't think that makeing it alot more specialiced is going to make it more of a choice, it probably will rather be strong on a few that synergies alot like hecarim or udyr, and usless for the rest. If you want to make an actuall choice rather than mandatory for a few and usless for the rest, how about increasing the ms a bit, or increasing it out of combat like cloud and therefor removeing the adaptive stat boost. This would allow people to pick it if they want to have more ms and nothing else regardless off thier champ.

LaughingStapler10/26/2018, 9:47:59 PM5 votes

The new DH drastically removes skill and decision making. The current iteration has an interesting mini game which tests you on multiple fronts from pathing to positioning (double proc. outplays off monsters/camps etc.), to understanding power spikes well.

The new one is just an artificial "here's more damage" type of rune with basically no decision making. It's also less versatile for diverse playstyles, builds and classes. Please do not go with the new DH iteration or at the very least make the stacking mini game like on live. I really hate the design of the new rune. A big step backwards from every aspect of gameplay/exploration/playstyle etc. It's just mundane and pointless. I don't care whether it's stronger or not. It makes the game less fun.

astralwit10/27/2018, 9:06:12 PM5 votes

If you want to add this new rune, make it a separate thing. Not only are you shafting junglers super hard but you're turning a late game oriented rune into mostly just a snowball feast/famine rune since you can't play intelligently to get stacks when behind (souls from teammates or farming jg/lane in the few areas of the map you can still control).

Even if you reach late game in a one-sided game with this new rune, it will do nothing for you since you won't really have stacks. It's not about risk vs reward. It's just luck."oh my team's ahead from dicerolling a good SQ team and now I snowball and easily farm stacks so the enemy team can suffer even more" or "oh I have no lanes so I can't do anything this game and also can't scale even if I reach late game because "getting stacks" would mean dying non-stop."

Moreover, the current DH is a great teamfight rune due to the sources of stacks. This new one is much less oriented this way despite the takedown reset. It's not a replacement. It's an entirely different purpose and style. Junglers need a rune too (for more than a pure early play style) and it's not at all fair for jungle players to be treated as second class citizens when it comes to runes.

I also think it's going to be way more frustrating to face. Just when I think I will live, their new DH damage + assassin execute abilities surprises me at sub 50%. Just why ruin a good rune with some actual planning and thinking behind it only to replace it with something so devoid of mastery expression. It's literally nothing more than "extra damage for being you".

I also see some curious comments about this rune and jungling, such as this one from Riot Rovient:

You gank lanes you feel you have a good chance of killing, right? They'll have to be under 50% HP in order to kill them or even force a flash in most cases.

Looking for lanes to be low is NOT how you jungle at all. Even WW mains don't play like this. Ganks involve countless factors and HP is only one of many. Usually, you will be ganking based on pathing gold efficiency if opportunities turn up. However, you are primarily thinking about matchups, win conditions (can this lane carry the game? can they be useful if behind or are they feast/famine? etc.), wave positioning, summoner spells, VIDION, kit considerations such as escapes and the CDs of those etc. Most of the lanes a good jungler ganks are not going to be low HP. That's not the primary determinant of whether or not a gank is smart.

BobaFlautist10/26/2018, 4:05:08 PM4 votes

{quoted}

Hmm, lemme see if that's data we can easily pull and share or not. No promises, but agree it's a good question.

Last one of these I asked about data on champion winrate as their opponents have more experience against them, I don't suppose you've had a chance to ask the data nerds? (Hope it's obvious that's intended as an affectionate term).

Edit: ok maybe not quite the last one if it's been 21 days. One of these!

xCrunchy10/26/2018, 4:33:47 PM1 votes

How can i understand the new Celerity?^does it effect Jinx or Jhins passive too?

ModThe Djinn10/26/2018, 5:03:52 PM1 votes

{quoted}We're working on some runes, with the goal of shipping some changes during preseason.

A few questions about that, if you have time

  • Precision Slot 1: Are Overheal and Presence of Mind things that get used a suitable amount? It feels like Triumph is definitely the most appreciable, at least.
  • Precision Slot 3: Do you feel there's enough meaningful difference in choice between Coup de Grace, Cut Down, and Last Stand vs. other slots? To me these all feel like "pick the highest damage" without a ton of consideration needed. Resolve Slot 1 & 3: Have you considered shuffling these around, especially with the removal of Bone Plating? Slot 1 seems to not have a good generic option otherwise, and Font of Life seems like it could swap with Unflinching to provide a "utility" defense slot and a "sustain" defense slot.