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Small Diana Gameplay changes coming to PBE

RiotRiot Zhanos·5/14/2019, 5:04:28 PM·1 votes·189,126 views

**EDIT from 5/17: Going to pull all those changes out in the next few days besides the Q spell and the QoL on it. Thanks everyone for the feedback (positive and negative alike) and discussions generated. This has been really useful information and we would like to do more improvements in the future, but want to align on setting the right goals before committing to big changes. **

Hey there! This is a follow-up to My last thread on the PBE boards about testing a series of changes to Diana Q. I’ve gotten a bunch of feedback and data on it and it mirrors Live Q’s behavior in almost all cases, but should feel faster and more accurate to cast.

In the meantime I’ve also been thinking about ways to add small improvements to Diana's kit to make her more enjoyable overall to play as and play against. Patch 7.14 had significant changes to Diana that brought her closer to being a very single-purpose AP assassin, while also gating her attack speed behind spellcasts. I want to try bringing her attack speed back to a more normal baseline and reducing her reliance on AP to succeed.

And thus I’d like to propose a small list of gameplay changes that I want to test on PBE starting next deploy:

These changes aren't going live with 9.11 but if anything that just gives us more time to workshop together :)

Goals with those changes are the following: -Increase Diana’s Time to Kill by a small amount -Revert the “spell weaving” paradigm that was introduced in 7.14 -Give her a little more mobility in fights and skirmishes

Here’s the changelist that I’ll be testing initially:

Base Mana: 372 (+20) => 335 (+45) Attack Speed: 0.625 => 0.725 Attack Speed per level: 2.25 => 2.30

P Cleave Ap Ratio: 0.8>0.6 NEW: Grants 20% Movement Speed on proc REMOVED: 30-90% Attack Speed after casting a spell REMOVED: 15% of AP as mana on proc

Q Still has all of the previous changes to it in testing. QoL: Reveals FoW on missile tip

E Cooldown: 26>18 => 20>12

R Reset time: 0.5 => 1.0

Last thing: The current iteration still has the R>Q reset removed. I’m hoping that, combined with her changes above, R>Q near-guaranteeing Q's damage is enough of a strength that Diana still sometimes opts into this combo without needing the gamble of a potential reset as additional incentive.

Note that none of this is final, so please share suggestions and ideas. The main consideration is that this work needs to stay low-scope, so we can't include any VFX changes or significant mechanic updates. This should also stay as close to power-neutral as possible since our focus is on making Diana feel better to play more than anything else.

Diana

436 Comments

Mini Magnus5/14/2019, 5:26:51 PM359 votes

For reference, I am a Diamond 3 Diana onetrick with over 1,1 million mastery on her.

These changes are absolutely terrible and honestly just a straight up nerf to an already terrible champion. Her oneshot potential is the only reason why you would play her, because there is no reason to play her as a "bruiser" as long as Jax, Riven, Hecarim, Rek'Sai, Irelia etc. etc. exist.

Increasing her mana growth isn't gonna help when you remove the mana on passive. Why would you even do that considering how weak she is? Increasing her attack speed is nice for cs'ing, but removing the E bonus hurts her overall damage and 1v1 potential and makes E a non-ability that's not worth taking until level 8 once again.

The R change will also do nothing else than make her feel more clunky. If you want to reduce her oneshot potential, please do it in some other way (and do the same to champs that can also oneshot, like Rengar).

Seraρh5/14/2019, 5:21:28 PM181 votes

So essentially what you are doing here is you force her to be an assassin as she doesn't have any form of DPS (due to the removal of the AS on cast) but then you are also making her a weaker assassin. This is a nerf.

She loses damage on her passive which is not only an assassination tool but also used for waveclear and most importantly dealing damage to turrets. The movespeed is decent, but it's only really useful if you stack your passive before going in to quickly get out after an assassination. Now with the extra delay on the R you might not even have enough damage and the movespeed is completely irrelevant because you die to get out your second R. Reducing the E cooldown does nothing because it is essentially a waste of mana even more so becausenow you don't get mana back with your passive. Talking about mana, I feel like you can barely get three rotaions out without going oom late game. You also can't split without blue now. The only useful thing you did is giving her early attack speed which makes csing a little easier.

You are nerfing an already weak champ and call that an "improvement". Godspeed.

Diana with these changes sounds like something DrMundo would play.

RayDenki5/14/2019, 5:25:53 PM155 votes

"Small Diana gameplay changes", more like Diana got deleted from the game.

The Ecdysiast5/14/2019, 5:10:13 PM142 votes

Why gut her ability to attack towers though? A cut to Cleave's ratio AND removal of the AS is a bit too much. Especially when you're not putting that power back elsewhere.

Nao Toyama5/14/2019, 5:50:09 PM97 votes

Good job killing an already dead champion.

Zaghyr5/14/2019, 7:09:53 PM64 votes

As with every other person who has commented so far, I also think these changes are terrible. Simply put they completely miss the mark for the changes you were aiming for.

In the meantime I’ve also been thinking about ways to add small improvements to Diana's kit to make her more enjoyable overall to play as and play against. Patch 7.14 had significant changes to Diana that brought her closer to being a very single-purpose AP assassin, while also gating her attack speed behind spellcasts. I want to try bringing her attack speed back to a more normal baseline and reducing her reliance on AP to succeed.

Your changes do not follow this at all. To start, you said that you want to make her more enjoyable to play as and against with 'improvements'. The changes you made will actually make her even worse to play with for a few reasons.

  1. The loss of the AS steroid. This is essential to Diana's play pattern and satisfaction because her base abilities early are not very strong and she needs to have DPS to succeed. The loss of AS makes her lose a window of power that was necessary to trade patterns, could lower her jungle clear health and speed, and when combined with the passive damage nerf it will maker her tower/split pushing power much, much weaker than it currently is unless you build enough attack speed to offset the nerf. Don't get me wrong, the buffed base AS and AS growth are wonderful changes, however these changes would only truly be felt when you are already building a lot of attack speed and would only maker her high AP bulid more clunky and less satisfying to play
  2. R reset time. When combined with the lack of an AS steroid on her, this would make her even more clunky to play. You said you wanted to slightly increase her time to kill, that's fine, but this specific change comes with the downside that it makes her already weak and usually slow burst pattern early even worse. Diana is not going to one-shot someone early in most cases and will usually have to poke and then land a full combo with 2 R's in order to kill the target, and in clutch moments that 0.5 seconds could be the deciding factor in whether you die or they die and whether or not you can catch them before they escape. This is the exact same issue that arose when Pre-Rework Akali had her ult dash times messed with. This is also a slight nerf to her in-combat mobility, but the movement speed buff of her passive might heavily outweigh this change.
  3. E cooldown buff not hitting the mark. This change doesn't necessarily go against the goals you set, they just don't hit the mark for what she needed. Don't get me wrong, this is one of the better changes you made, but this isn't what we needed. The primary issue with her E in terms of satisfaction and usability is how unreliable it is. As it stands this ability is only usable when the target is already close to you. The problems start when the target starts getting to the edge of the radius. This ability becomes really weird and frustrating when they reach the edge. Even if they are in range when the spell is casted, they will either walk of range during the cast time, or the ability will just not pull them at all even though they were clearly in range. While the cooldown change is nice because it would buff her sticking potential top-lane and massively increase her sticking power late-game, it doesn't fix the core issues with the ability. Besides the problems with its reliablity at the edge of the radius, it is also a nearly dead jungle spell until lv6 and is only used for the AS steroid increase, it is also nearly useless against ranged match-ups pre-6.

You also said you are changing her AS so that she relies less on AP to succeed. This won't work because in order for her to succeed with less AP, her kit needs to be able to function with other builds that focus less on AP. Not to mention you nerfed the AP ratio on her passive, which would would make non AP builds weaker, and would require more AP to offset the nerf.

The only viable builds that would work for her that involve less AP are on-hit DPS builds and bruiser builds. The DPS builds could work with the base AS buff, would be a bit weaker because of the passive damage nerf. The bruiser builds would be less effective than pure DPS, because while you do have higher mana, base AS, lower E cd, and the new MS buff, there is no proper AP bruiser itemization, her Shield is too reliant on high amounts of AP to be effective, she does not have good DPS without Nashor's, and she has no form of tank-busting innately to deal with other fighters and tanks.

SUGGESTIONS

  • Lower her base AS (lower than 0.725, but much higher than 0.625. Keep her AS steroid after ability cast, but change its scaling to be less explosive and more manageable with the higher base AS. In terms of satisfaction a mix of both changes would be ideal. Having a higher base AS would open up more viable builds and increase early game satisfaction and the AS steroid would still give her windows of power, but would have to be tuned so that her AS post change and pre change comes out roughly the same when using AS steroid.
  • Don't nerf her early base Mana as hard, keep the Mana growth buff, keep the removal of passive Mana restore. Overall these are nice changes actually. The reason I'm suggesting on making the base Mana nerf less harsh is because to try and keep some of the suggestions power-neutral, I will be suggesting lowering her Mana regen and/or Mana regen growth, and slightly uping some of her mana costs (by like 5, maybe 10 for her E or R, but not all abilities will get a mana cost change.
  • Keep the passive Movement speed buff, or put the movement speed buff on her W. I actually quite like this change, and honestly it could work on her W as well granted the MS increase is higher on her W because it would be utilized less often, especially if you are focusing on DPS. If the MS buff is good enough, then I would keep the AP ration nerf to offset its power a little.
  • Keep her E cooldown buff, and make it more reliable to use when champions are closer to the edge by hitting the pull directly and/or messing with the cast time and channeling. The buff is nice, and I would keep it, but the ability really only needs QOL changes to make it more reliable and satisfying. If the E is better to use and she gets MS on her passive, then naturally this ability should also get a slight nerf to it to compensate. Lowering the slow % would do the trick sich her sticking power is already more frequent and reliable from other changes.
  • Remove the R reset Nerf. There are other ways to increase her time to kill without making her clunky.
  • Keep the fog-of-war change on her Q, it's actually kind of nice to have that option.
  • Increase her base AD. IF AND ONLY IF YOU INTEND TO GO THROUGH WITH YOUR ATTACK SPEED CHANGES, then please increase her base AD so it doesn't feel like she is hitting someone with a wet noodle. Would also help offset the AP nerf to her passive slightly and while may be hitting people is massive bursts of speed like she did, they are slightly faster on a base level and hit a little harder.
  • Buff her base Shield, lower the shield's AP ratio, possibly add a bonus HP ratio or Mana ratio. If you want her to succeed with less AP then her W ABSOLUTELY needs to be functional at less AP. Giving her a better base shield would already help her other builds and should be a nerf to her full AP build, and if you have to you could add the bonus HP or Mana ratios as other ways to the make the shield good without he need for a lot of AP. Naturally this change would come of a nerf to offset it, something like lower damage, slightly higher cooldown, or slightly higher mana cost, or a combination of them would do.
  • Using R on a Moonlight marked target no longer removes all other Moonlight marks from other targets. This is something a lot of Diana players want, while it would probably have to come with some kind of nerf, it would help her reliability and satisfaction a bit.
  • Nerf her burst, but buff her DPS. How you do this is up to you, but I think it is necessary for her health and balance based on the changes you presented. I have my own suggestion, but he only problem with mine is that is might require a VFX change, but hopefully it won't. The Suggestion is this: Enemies marked by Moonlight now take X(+Y% AP) bonus magic damage from Diana's basic attacks and Lunar Rush. This change would be accompanied by a very slight nerf to her Q damage and a slightly higher nerf to her R damage, but would also work with your Passive damage nerf, and should NOT be done with by base AD buff suggestion. This would lower her burst a bit, but give her more dueling power and DPS in moments of power. Her ult would be less bursty overall except when reset with Q. I don't think this is a heavy Mechanic change at all, but the main issue with it is that you might have to add a VFX for when the damage is dealt. However, the VFX change wouldn't have to happen if you just don't make a VFX change at all, or preferably make Diana use her Crit animation when attacking enemies marked with Moonlight.

Most of your changes, and some of mine, are either power shifts or buffs accompanied by compensation nerfs. Overall if the combined list is less power neutral then desired, then naturally you would have to make more nerfs to compensate assuming you can find the proper areas to nerf. Some of YOUR changes are nice in concept but they miss YOUR mark and would only hurt Diana in other ways that as you can tell do not make Diana players very happy.

Jean Théodule5/14/2019, 5:36:07 PM56 votes

From what i see there, that's a straight nerf. Diana doesn't have the tools to reliably dps nor burst with this, the MS on passive let's her stick a little bit better her target but she has her E for that purpose. She will still lack the tankiness to be "bruiserish" or the reliability of "3 hit proc" that have every other champ with that kind of mechanics. What about letting her abilitys give some kind of stacks for it, or making it enemy-bound marks instead ? Especially the marks part would make it clearer for the enemy when he's threatened and make diana more confident for a jump in if she has already 2 marks on an enemy.

Naalith5/14/2019, 5:40:48 PM48 votes

I don't like it. I don't see the buffs going anywhere near close to compensation for the removal of attack speed on spell cast. E cd buffs are okay but honestly I'd rather see her E have a less crippling cast time than get a cooldown reduction.

I know there's debate on assassin vs fighter Diana but honestly this just looks like it'll make assassin feel far worse while barely affecting fighter. Additionally, both versions will lose their lane tower killing potential which just feels bad. Another feels bad is that jungle Diana, her intended role, looks like it'll have to sit around and wait for mana in order to clear more often.

Sang Betang5/14/2019, 5:43:03 PM46 votes

Sorry but... this is a joke?

NOHITDETECTIO2K5/14/2019, 5:39:34 PM42 votes

Cleave Ap Ratio: 0.8>0.6 NEW: Grants 20% Movement Speed on proc REMOVED: 30-90% Attack Speed after casting a spell REMOVED: 15% of AP as mana on proc

umm Whats the goal here??? You basically plan to gut her in favor of less mana and movement speed? Slight CD buff on E? Slight more attack speed? Next you guys are just gonna say "Diana isn't a very suitable champion for League, so we're removing her." And when that day comes, I will promptly uninstall this game. This is insane. Trash assassin even more trash compared to the rest of the assassins out there, this is wrong. Super wrong.

Kadexe5/14/2019, 5:35:08 PM38 votes

Well these are lame as hell. I was hoping to see something cool. I at least like the changes to her passive, spellweaving for attack speed doesn't really mesh with Diana's basic abilities.

Could she get a bonus health ratio on her shield? That would at least be a nice buff to alternative bruiser builds without giving more power to assassin builds.

If you're looking for more wild ideas for Diana changes (without requiring new visual/audio assets), here goes:

  • E and R - Switch them. Lower the damage of Lunar Rush, but make it a basic ability. Lower reset time to .75 seconds, and reduce the damage of multiple Lunar Rushes against the same target. Add damage to Moonfall, make the radius 20% larger, but nerf/remove the slow effect. Add a tiny knockback to Lunar Rush. Make the mana cost of Moonfall 100 and cooldown ~2 minutes.
The Lunari5/14/2019, 5:25:54 PM34 votes

First, let me thank you for attention to our goddess Diana and let me ask you two question" Did you read the r/dianamains suggestion? If so, what is your opinion on that? Sec., i feel disappointed by the changes because they are some kind of fixes but not the promised help to improve her assassin X bruiser potential, low skill cap potential and other problems /looking at you E/.

Thank you

Edit: Please, please - reframe your "Diana goal/problem" and talk to us more, we gonna love you. I can promise you honest and usefull feedback that can bring Diana back to her Lunari peak. Diana

Tormentula5/14/2019, 5:47:03 PM25 votes

Is this a stealth nerf to diana?

The R Q interaction is fine, the problem is AP bruisers have no good itemization and diana is the poster child of AP divers, you either have to adjust her numbers in a way where full burst isn't better and she gains more from building health (her shield value should scale with health not AP) or actually address how shit AP diver itemization is in comparison to AD diver itemization.

Increase her base values, lower her ratios, and congratulations she's not an assassin and you can build her into a bruiser from there. How she becomes good as a bruiser with no tools available is the biggest problem that I honestly don't know how to fix considering if AD divers in mid lane aren't good, there is no way an AP diver will shine and in the jungle evelynn/nidalee/elise are just better.

Boltonator5/14/2019, 5:35:59 PM22 votes

I dont play Diana but the number changes don’t look “small” in the slightest...

I’m also curious as to where Diana was in terms of pick/bans/winrate, since I rarely ever saw her in normals.

Lorzas5/14/2019, 6:15:54 PM19 votes

Hello,

Diamond 3 OTP Diana here, and actually studying Gamde Desing & Development.

First of all, with the current meta and as a champ that needs to kill this changes are not great, let me explain my point of view.

  • Turret plating: One reason Diana is "playable" in early stages of the game, is because thanks to the [passive]+[E] she can obtain some platings if a good wave management is done. If this goes through, and we nerf the attack speed early, we wont be able to get this gold from the platings, because we wont be able to deal damage with the passive, and get more passives with the attack speed. Also, diana needs to play safe pre-6, causing in a lot of scenarios a farm disatvantage, and a lane priority disatvantage, a thing, that now we can solve with getting some extra gold form the platings.
  • Removing the mana refund it's ok if we get this +25 mana per level.
  • If your goal is to make her more mobile, giving extra 0.5 secs on [R], and making it 1 second wont help her mobility in a lot of scenarios, for example: Q minion, R minion, and getting to an enemy fast, of getting through enemies while not beig oblitarated.
  • And adding to the last point, if you want to make her more mobile, it's no up to 20% movement speed, but as I think, it's more a about giving her more resets on [R]. Also, Diana, is a champ, that builded in a good way, going SpellBinder + boots + Rune(Relentless Hunter) gets to 500 movement speed, so she don't need more movement speed in exchange to less damage and pressure in lane.

Overall, this proposal is not as good as RIOT may think, because the only think that makes Diana viable right now is the Oneshot potential, combined with some pressure that she can applie with the Passive and the Attack speed form the [E].

Thanks for your attention, if someone wants to discuss i'm open to it, and ofcourse if i'm wrong on anything i'm open to change my mind.

PD: excuse my poor english. Diana item 3070

React to 0p4s5/14/2019, 7:47:14 PM19 votes

Since I can not speak English, this comment is written using Google Translate. I pray that it will be transmitted correctly.

My name is DianyA JP. I use the most Diana in Japan, and I use RQ Combo, RQE Combo that Riot wants to delete. Since I can not comment in Japanese accounts, I moved sub accounts using RP.

This change is not possible. Lower total damage, lower DPS, delete mana recovery, increase R reset time, compensate for these severe nurses, increase basic AS, increase MS by passive, and decrease E CD not. As you can see in the statistics, why do you nerf Diana with low win rates and low picks? The Diana Champ will become useless.

Riot, you do not understand the conditions of the RQ Combo revised RQE Combo CD reset. This video is from 9.1 PBE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udXwMdS7hUk RQ is no longer possible, but RQE is a video that can be ironic. In fact I still use the RQE Combo, and it is shown in the broadcast and videos. You are incompetent. Notice the foolishness of nerf Diana without deleting the RQE Combo you originally wanted to delete. RQE Combo is not gambling, but stable. I prove it by reflecting my hand. https://twitter.com/DianyA_JP/status/1084847134073999368 https://twitter.com/DianyA_JP/status/1093699491532660736

When making adjustments, make the correct adjustment. This does not convince all Diana players. Are you going to delete Diana?Diana

I also put the original text.

私は英語が話すことが出来ない為、このコメントはGoogle翻訳を使用して書き込んでいます。 正しく伝わることを祈ります。

私の名前はDianyA JPです。 私は日本で最もダイアナを使用しています、Riotが削除したいと考えているRQ Combo、RQE Comboを使います。 日本のアカウントではコメント出来ない為、サブアカウントをRPを使用して移動しました。

この変更はあり得ません。 トータルダメージの低下、DPSの低下、マナ回復の削除、Rのリセット時間の増加、これらの酷いナーフに対しての補填が基礎ASの増加、パッシブによるMSの増加、EのCD減少だけでは釣り合っていません。 統計で見たらわかる通り、勝率とピックが低いダイアナを何故ナーフするのですか？ ダイアナというチャンプが使い物にならなくなります。

Riot、あなた達はRQ Combo改めRQE ComboのCDリセットの条件を理解していません。 この動画は9.1PBEのものです。 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udXwMdS7hUk RQは出来なくなりましたが、RQEは出来るという皮肉を込めた動画です。 実際に私は未だにRQE Comboを使用していますし、それを配信や動画に映しています。 あなた達は無能です。 本来削除したいRQE Comboを削除せずにダイアナをナーフするという愚行に気付いてください。 RQE Comboはギャンブルではなく安定して使用出来るものです。 私はそれを手を映して証明しています。 https://twitter.com/DianyA_JP/status/1084847134073999368 https://twitter.com/DianyA_JP/status/1093699491532660736

調整をする場合、正しい調整を行ってください。 これでは全てのダイアナプレイヤーが納得しません。 ダイアナを削除するつもりですか？Diana

Luna Nueva5/14/2019, 5:58:06 PM18 votes

20% ms for gutting R, 20% AP ratio and 15% mana return. Yeah, not feeling it.

AS change is a nerf aswell since as Diana you don't auto people people to death. If you are pursuing the 6 wit's end Diana preseason meme this is not going to cut it.

Diana doesn't build mana items because she is feast or famine and needs damage to be relevant. With this change her mana will be even worse, forcing her into mana items which is a big stop to her, again, feast or famine.

I get you are trying to turn her into more of a fighter but really, 20% ms and numbers tweak is all you come up with? Please don't go ahead with these changes since they accomplish nothing (not even more mobility, since at the same time you are delaying her R which makes her less mobile?).

Vìxen5/14/2019, 5:47:00 PM18 votes

This seems like such a bad and un-needed nerf overall. The E cdr is nice, but why gut her passive? She’s one of the least played mid laners. If her burst is an issue, then maybe we should also take a look at other burst champs in game. But even then, the burst is all she has. She isn’t tanky enough to be as good as a Jax or an Irelia type of bruiser, yet lacks the mobility that an Akali or Irelia would have.

Meredith Stout5/14/2019, 5:09:39 PM17 votes

XD first hand balancing team You know that Diana is not problem? But buffing champions that are "op" like Zyra or Cait who doesn't deserve buffs.

What kind of mastermind stand behind priorities like this.

Edit; These are not changes, these are straight nerf to ground

Pls let me login5/14/2019, 6:25:20 PM16 votes

It's clear that you have not taken any suggestions from players seriously after looking at the PBE thread you've linked.

I don't understand, why won't you do what people are asking you to do and instead deliver this.... People are not asking for "feel better" changes... people want a mini-rework.

Diana is not and will not get any better "to feel" than she is right now. The change is surprisingly stupid. Well done, you have failed us again. If you don't plan to fix the champ and instead are doing some stupid "feel better" changes, don't actually do anything and keep buffing Darius, Renekton and Master, because that's literally what Riot can only do - make broken champions even more broken "bEccAuSe tHE wINrAte!!11!" and weaken already weak ones...

I actually believed that this time will be different and that you will deliver us the change we wanted. Like literally what is so difficult about reading peoples comments and see what they want? But yeah, it's better to introduce some stupid random changes that are a nerf, because those ones are nerf and all Diana mains agree.

Threads about Dianas weaknesses and what needs to be changed about her are literally created every day. But yeah, let's ignore them completely.

People are asking about bringing back Diana jungle. Six fuckign years and nothing was done about that. Why do you remove R+Q, has ANYONE ever want that? Has anyone ever fucking asked you for that? No! No one did, so why are you changing something that NO ONE CARES ABOUT!? No one cares about that. People are fine with that, not only those who play Diana but also those who play against her. Has anyone literally ever made at least one fucking thread about Dianas R+Q and that it needs to be removed?

NO. ONE. CARES.

Why don't you fix what WE ARE WAITING FOR SIX YEARS!? People CONSTANTLY complain about her binary gameplay - NOTHING IS DONE. People want her to be a viable pick in jungle - NOTHING IS DONE. People complain about her E being useless - NOTHING IS DONE.

"bUt hEY rIoT I hAve aN iDEa, LeT'S fIX heR R+Q, yEah thATS WhAt PeOplE wAnTED us TO dO !!!1111!!"

I swear, you never fail to fail... Have you actually ever considered what people are saying and maybe thought at least once that you might actually do something abut the elephant in the room? Because what you'r doing it right now, is covering it with some towels and pretending that it doesn't exist.

Those changes can NEVER hit live.

Hardstuck Libre5/14/2019, 5:54:33 PM13 votes

I honestly fail to see where this is in any way positive for Diana.

Buffs: Q (QoL) Passive: MS bonus E: CD

Nerfs: Passive: DMG and Attack speed (less times procced) R: Less burst

So we cant build bruiser Diana because you removed the AS part.

But playing assassin Diana will feel terrible because Passive DMG and R reset timer are hindering her oneshot potential.

Im willing to be proven wrong but i dont see how this benefits her.

UNLESS the Q changes are so good that its a good tradeoff.

But keep in mind that diana will have massive mana problems now.

Targon5/14/2019, 5:52:20 PM11 votes

Could Diana get a small buff to her base AD? It is really hard to last hit with her with it being so low, especially since she gets bullied pre-6 pretty hard by nearly every matchup. Her current base AD is 53, which is the second lowest of all melee champions, only above Kayle (who eventually becomes ranged and hyperscales anyways). Other AP melees like Katarina (58), Ekko (58), Sylas (58), Fizz (58), Kassadin (58.9), and Akali (62.4) have much high base AD.

Also, I think that reducing the AP ratio on her passive disincentivizes her attack speed build a lot. Dealing base damage + 60% AP every 3 auto attacks (even if it a small AOE) is pretty weak on a melee champion lacking an escape. Neeko has the same ratio on her 3 hit passive. Kayle, Teemo, Varus, and Azir all have the same or higher total AP scaling over 3 attacks, and they're all ranged.

If you want to reduce the AP ratio on her third hit (and keep her base AD low), maybe adding a ratio to her first and second autos would help. Maybe 15% AP on first auto, 25% AP on second auto, because a big reason why her attack speed build isn't that great is because ONLY every third auto actually hurts, and you usually only get 1, maybe 2 empowered autos off in a fight.

Celio Hogane HD5/14/2019, 6:48:20 PM10 votes

WHY WOULD ANYONE THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA!?

EggKnight5/14/2019, 6:10:51 PM9 votes

Rework her and be done with it already. These changes are the biggest nerf that she will receive, she is not popular by any means, but if these changes go live, she will be forgotten. Please, don't murder her like this. This unfair treatment is well suited for champions like Riven.

World Ender5/14/2019, 5:27:18 PM9 votes

I wish you would just revert her old passive so she could still be a decent jungler. Oh well, looks like the masses have spoken and they want Diana to be a mid lane assassin who is just an old Akali clone instead of being an AP bruiser jungler, as she was designed.

Pls let me login5/14/2019, 6:36:16 PM9 votes

Riot hates Diana...[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Daniel Larusso5/14/2019, 7:07:55 PM9 votes

Diana Diamond OTP here just dont you are super nerfing her wtf is going on If you wanna make DIana's bruiser viable, you have to increase the shield or something. This chanegs are destroying both attack speed builds and full ap ones. I was expecting a buff in her health regen or W and I get a nerf on all skills E is trash, 70 mana cost lvl 1 for a small slow. Just dont Diana needed a bit of a buff early, not this heavy nerf I dont even understand why you are changing her at all

Triscuiticus5/14/2019, 6:42:56 PM8 votes

I am a long time Diana main and these changes are just overall a large nerf. Mana changes are really bad when removing the mana back off passive. Base and scaling attack speed are nice early but still bad when removing the attack speed steroid off of e and makes e just as useless as it used to be which means no even taking it until past 6. E cd buff is really nice and honestly should be that right now and it wouldn't change Diana much but when looking at everything else it's just bad. The r change is soo bad and will just make her feel so much clunkier.

Overall these changes are large overall nerfs to her kit and will make her feel WORSE not better to play.

My suggestion if you want power neutral is just buff e. Leave everything else as is right now. Just play around with e. It's an ability that has same cd as ult which feels bad and right now only real reason to get it early is for the AS steroid, which is nice for the 1v1-ing and tower pushing. Another possible thing is to add a moonlight interaction with e like if you q-e if consumes moonlight and does something like root for duration or half duration instead of slow or something like that. This would add a degree of complexity to her otherwise very linear kit.

As complete dumbass (EUW) said there is no reason to try and play Diana as an AP bruiser, like at all. Really bruiser champions just destroy her. You play Diana for the AP assassin. If you're concerned about her 1 shotting people then I'd suggest looking at more meta 1 shot champions first. Diana will never be "meta" anymore and that's ok but trying to change her into something she isn't or can't do anymore is just bad and feels worse to play.

I appreciate the efforts and someone finally looking into Diana but I along with many other believe this isn't the right approach.

PowerOfDrainAge5/14/2019, 5:12:03 PM8 votes

Why lower her DPS when bruiser is all that she should be known of? Why not lower her Q ratio for example? I dont see why u need to nerf her passive which is basically a weaker version of Jax's ult passive now.

I like how u move her burst of huge attack speed bonus into a constant bonus though.

Ahm.. Is 0.725 base attack speed or 0.625 with a lvl1 bonus?

Sexpeku5/14/2019, 5:34:09 PM8 votes

"P Cleave Ap Ratio: 0.8>0.6" Seriously? really? after the "w bug fix" she has lost a lot of burst damage, I don't think that nerfing her ap ratio on her passive is necessary. Just please, leave her as she is right now, it feels like you're nerfing her.

Kírua5/14/2019, 6:16:17 PM8 votes

Are you fucking drunk ? Pyke champ are fuking OP with heal / dash / invisible / reset execute ultimate / CC and you just fuking destroy Diana "as a little nerf" Fucking Joke.

MajestyGaming5/15/2019, 9:46:07 PM7 votes

First, sorry for my bad english , i tried my best.

As a Diana Main with "2 Millions points", I dont get it at all.

First you are saying that this is "Small Diana Gameplay changes", tell me then if "you" really tried to play Diana before saying that ?

I mean in what world you can think about giving her a little more mobility in fights and skirmishes by giving her 20% M.S and removing 20% AP ratio on her passiv, removing her ability to split push by removing the mana and A.S on passiv too ?

Ok ,so ... what do you see when you are looking at the diana's rune that most of the players are playing with to not say everyone ?

Did they take Phase rush to get more mobility as you are trying to do ?

No, why ? Because we know at 100% that your strongest point is her burst, we are not a bruiser like for example : "Jax" , "Udyr", we can't do that and we don't really want to get out in teamfights, because that's not what we are supposed to do !

You are the one who make us play her like an assasin and not a fighter, and after you saw that's not the way you want us to play her, you are nerfing the burst and gave us 20% M.S, that's not what we need.

You are trying to turn Diana into a bruiser, where you have to build ROA, Nashor ..., but its impossible with champions like Jax, Irelia, Hecarim, Riven, Rek'Sai, etc. Diana needs to stay as an assassin, that's the only reason why she isn't too awful right now.

If you really wanna do that you have to completly change Diana, give us something to stay longer in fights, like fighter's do or let us play her assassins and give us something to get out of fights like most of them do.

Its simple, we have only 1 option with Diana in Teamfights : "Kill the back lane as an assassin do", most of the time after that we get killed, you know why ?

Because we are surrounded by all the ennemy and we can't get out without flash, thats why we are better than others assasins on "One point", we have a better burst than most of them, and thank god because if we didn't have that, why play her then ?

I am saying it again, we have 0 option to get out !

We haven't the smoke of Akali, not the lot of dashes of katarina on everything on the map, not the invisibility of Talon, not the shadow of Zed, not the Q or E of fizz, not the R of Ekko , not the passif of Leblanc and her dashes in and out, not the multiple R of kassadin, not the invisibility of Khazix or Shaco.

We suffer a lot on laning phase because of that, we have no escape playing her midlane, do you realise that ? But, we were happy with our 15% of AP as mana on passiv, because we were able to spam W on CS and stay in the middle of the lane to proc passiv on minions and get mana to spam it again and again, that was our only choice to survive , now you are removing that too, so what ?

We have to go back to base every 2 wave, now ?

In the end, our burst is nerf, our laning phase is nerf, our split push is nerf , what do you leave to us ? The 20% M.S ? Come on ...

And dont say me that this ==>

"Base Mana: 372 (+20) => 335 (+45) Attack Speed: 0.625 => 0.725 Attack Speed per level: 2.25 => 2.30"

will help us more than diana actually do in laning phase.

I hope i helped you to understand our frustration on this "small" changes.

rRefluxX5/14/2019, 5:26:50 PM7 votes

I'm not too sure about how both the removal of the mana refund and reduction of the AP ratio will go together with her getting better base attack speed... She seems both better as an attack speed bruiser and a little worse, so it's hard to tell. However, I will definitely enjoy that she now scales very well with Nashor's! And I also love the reduced cd on E and ms on passive. It's hard to tell what this does just by looking at it and I will give Diana a go on PBE to know how it feels!

djpain205/14/2019, 5:54:36 PM7 votes

So the passive loses almost all of it's strength in exchange for a 20% ms boost and some attack speed buffs? Meh. One of the more interesting things about Diana is that she is insanely good at pushing towers in the late game which gives her at least some sort of identity other than "oneshotlol", but now that is severely nerfed, but what's best is that her one shot potential is also slightly nerfed.

Xerelia5/14/2019, 6:04:22 PM6 votes

Wtf this is a horrible change, hope never gets to live server

70814565/14/2019, 10:23:04 PM6 votes

If you want to make her a bruiser give her a passive that transfers AD of items to AP so that she can build proper bruiser items. Like this - which bruiser is she exactely able to beat how? Don't really see it.

The changes as such just seem too much of a nerf and nothing really that would improve the fun of playing Diana.

What good is a lower E cooldown if you don't have the mana to use it? The R change sounds like it would feel really clunky. How exactely is that movement speed supposed to help?

There are many good ideas out there, e.g. switching her R (remove some damage) and E (buff, e.g. interaction with moonlight to stun + some damage), etc etc., so I really hope you put some more effort in this and listen to the Diana community, which has lots of good ideas in the DianaMains subreddit, because like this it doesn't feel like an improvement.

REEEEEEe80085/14/2019, 6:10:48 PM6 votes

Yeah this is a horrible change. Shes fine as it is, in fact the only thing that could be reworked without destroying the champion is her e. Please don't go through with these changes.

FluffeDream5/15/2019, 10:04:39 AM6 votes

I'm a Diana main and I really dislike these changes. Removing the attack speed on her passive will make her feel sluggish even with the increased base attack speed It's just a flat nerf. Removing the mana restore from her passive is another flat nerf even with her increased mana growth (This champion already really struggles with mana maybe try reducing mana costs or something instead?) Reducing the E cooldown looks like a buff but It's a nearly completely useless ability that you only really used to get your passive attack speed but now the attack speed is gone so It's even more useless. The movement speed on her passive is at least slightly useful but It is a significant downgrade from her old passive in terms of power. (You lower the AP ratio on it, remove the attack speed and mana on an already weak/mediocre champion? I just don't see the purpose behind it)

If you're going to remove the mana gain on her cleave you should at least reduce some of her mana costs. With the attack speed removal on her passive her E is nearly useless so maybe make her E give her attack speed on use or something? A lot of the reason why you R-Q someone is because of how inconsistent hitting your Q is. If you go through with the removal of the R-Q combo I'd suggest maybe making the Q larger or something to compensate.

These changes as they stand are flat nerfs to an already mediocre champion. And it seems they will make her less fluid and less fun to control.