A few gameplay updates

RiotMeddler·6/24/2016, 9:21:26 PM·1 votes·53,379 views

Hey folks,

Wanted to follow up on some of the topics we talked about recently in the recent Mid-Season Followup (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/o7nazGfh-state-of-the-season-mid-season-followup).

**Cloud Drake: **

As previously mentioned we've been holding off on Cloud Drake changes, despite dissatisfied feedback on the buff's value, because we wanted to take some more time to assess its impact, particularly in organized play. At this point it's statistically only just below the average power level of the other drakes. Perception of its impact is dramatically lower however. We're going to try an experimental, and fairly sizable, buff as a result in 6.14 to see what effect impact that has. Current plan is 25 out of combat momvement speed per stack instead of 15.

There's a reasonable risk this is a mechanic that's never going to be sufficiently appreciable relative to its power however. It's possible as a result that we might replace out of combat movement speed with a different movement effect at some point (we do think strategic movement's a good niche for a drake buff). First step though is getting a better understanding of the current mechanic, including whether it's actually good for the game if strategic movement offered in this way is really strong.

**Assassins: **

Will be our next class update in the end of year Pre-Season (November or December). Statikk talks about our goals in some detail in the link below. TLDR is more diverse assassins with more ways for other players to interact with them.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Tnfw1WW6-next-class-update-the-assassins

Support stuff:

A number of support focused changes are coming in 6.13 (which probably releases next week). We've also got some champion changes that showed promise but need more testing time. We'll probably have at least some of those in 6.14 (Leona, maybe Sona, possibly some Alistar stuff we've been playing around with etc).

In terms of the 6.13 changes some of the most significant are those to the XP system and to some items. Couple of posts below from Xypherous that run through a lot of the thinking behind those changes:

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/XWNXaWcc-613-planned-adjustments-to-secondary-systems-part-1-experience-changes

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/NT7UcOWt-613-planned-adjustments-to-more-stuff-part-2-teleport-support-item

Focusing a bit more on Pro Play in 6.14 and 6.15

Finally we'll be prioritizing work on champs that are particular problems in pro play a bit more in the next couple of patches (6.15 is the patch for most, or possibly all, of the Worlds qualifiers). First up we've got changes to Rek'Sai (initial thought - slower tick rate on Tremor sense?) and Azir (less early damage, more of a marksman like damage curve over the course of the game?). There will probably be some more changes prioritized by pro play impact in 6.15 too (Viktor and Karma look likely, potentially others like Elise?).

204 Comments

Utility Veigar6/24/2016, 9:44:52 PM12 votes

Is Heimer getting any changrs that will make him viable in pro scene and somewhat viable/healthy in ranked? He seems to only stomp in pub games but struggles in higher levels. Will he be seeing another rework? I have never seen a Heimer really outshine or be useful.

NotSoEvilDead6/24/2016, 10:17:30 PM9 votes

Not a huge fan of nerfing rek'sai's tremor sense. That mechanic is part of her appeal. Feels weird to nerf the most unique and interesting part of her kit.

IxtaliKing6/24/2016, 11:57:23 PM6 votes

There will probably be some more changes prioritized by pro play impact in 6.15 too (Viktor and Karma look likely, potentially others like Elise?).

I'm assuming the Karma changes will be a nerf to her RE, right? Please can you guys just give back her shield bomb, it was literally the best thing about her after her rework :(. I really hope you're not planning to just flat out nerf her.

SilverSquid6/25/2016, 12:17:03 AM5 votes

Finally we'll be prioritizing work on champs that are particular problems in pro play a bit more in the next couple of patches (6.15 is the patch for most, or possibly all, of the Worlds qualifiers). (...) There will probably be some more changes prioritized by pro play impact in 6.15 too (Viktor and **Karma **look likely, potentially others like Elise?).

To my understanding Karma Karma Karma has been problematic in pro play because:

  • Her RE has been buffed a lot in 6.6 to make her more competitive as a scaling utility mage in mid.
  • However, midlane Karma mostly needs to decide between damage (RQ) and utility (RE) , but as a midlaner the damage is usually still more useful.
  • Support Karma only uses RE in mid to late game, because her damage (RQ) isn't relevant enough, her heal (RW) too selfish and her root (RW) too unreliable.
  • This means, support Karma got a lot of power, that does neither take skill to apply, can not be countered and does not need any decision making (RE is just superior).

But since her winrate in normal play is slightly below 50%, straight up nerfing her power doesn't make sense.

Karma needs a powershift. Or more precisely; more skill requirement in her kit, to make mastering her harder. Allow her to fail at pro play, instead of giving her free power. If not for the skills themselves, make her decision making harder.

Problematic to me seems the inbalance in her mantras; depending on how you build, one option is nearly always superior. Mage (RQ), Support (RE) and Tank (RW). Can we make the mantras harder to choose from? Like not having RW scale with %hp, but have a flat heal that increases a lot on low hp (making it less OP on tank Karma, and more useful without tank stats)? Maybe give RW a more reliable way of helping, instead of having a long root, that her kit can't use (some people suggested ally healing)? And maybe the damage back on her RE (=shieldbomb)? It was a part of Karma for so long, people love it, and the decision when and where to cast it, made it actually hard to use. Because you lose power if you simply shield your whole team all the time, which makes her automatically subpar in pro play, if not used perfectly?

HaloDragonX6/24/2016, 9:33:38 PM4 votes

@Meddler do you guys have any plans for Ekko? He's played more as a tank and recent nerfs have practically killed his ability to jungle. Perhaps future changes will turn him into an assassin?

Bootleg Gay6/24/2016, 9:43:35 PM4 votes

Would there ever be plans to give Cloud Dragon a bonus other than movement speed?

Vanjie6/25/2016, 1:47:11 AM4 votes

I really hope you don't nerf Karma because of the mass shield. I like seeing her in tournament matches and being played mid. If you nerf her damage because of the overbuffed shield, then remove the shield. No one wanted that change and it is probably to strong. If Karma's damage is nerfed at all then what little damage she has, will force her to be only played as a support. Your nerfed her entire identity three years ago and you continue to bottleneck her only as a support.

Her damage doesn't need to be touched because she falls off late game as a mage. The problem is the overbuffed shield and the W, which has always been a problem. If you nerf her after spend what nonsense time you have spent on her, then it will be all true. The truth will be revealed that you don't care about the champion. You didn't care about her three years ago and you don't care about her now, if you should nerf any part of her without compensating Karma somewhere. She's finally getting some time in the spotlight and we feel that you know her kit is not working out. Find a way to make it work instead of nerfing the numbers you implemented. The problem is her kit isn't working . . . . and instead of working on her . . . giving the champion something . . . . . you are only adjusting her numbers.

Either give her a new passive and move the current one to her ult, then nerf her R+E shield . . . . or give her back her shield bomb and have it only proc her passive for half the amount of cooldown it does to others . . .

Karma's shield bomb can be balanced:

The same target cannot take full damage . . . . . from another bomb until said seconds. Long cooldown. It doesn't proc second effects. The damage hits the target directly in front of the shielded minion or ally for more than what is around it.

Mommy Elise6/25/2016, 3:31:03 AM4 votes

You mess with Elise, I mess with you. >.>

(Srsly. Bae is fine where she is. She's just good, like Rek'sai, but honestly I see a lot of pros picking her and failing pretty hard on her then anything.)

YourSh4dow6/25/2016, 8:01:21 AM4 votes

Pls dont nerf Karma... she has enough problems as she is. Changes yes please. pure nerfs NOPE!!!

Hadriel6/25/2016, 3:51:44 PM4 votes

Can you hold off from nerfing Karma until the dust settles from support changes? Karma has existed with this power level for much longer than she's been a popular pick. Peeling off the layers from from other supports has made her rise in popularity, but the effect she's having on the game isn't distorting other than her increased pick rate in LCS regions. Her average winrate in competitive play is below 50%, as is her solo queue one. http://lol.esportswikis.com/wiki/Karma/Statistics/2016

I don't think Karma's pickrate is necessarily a reflection of her power level. She's a healthy midlaner and a priority support that doesn't really make teams win more games compared to other meta supports. The reasons why she's prioritized is unclear, she's being used as a bit of a jack of all trades that, in the past, paled to other similar options. I'd hate to see her nerfed unreflectingly; it took many rounds of buffs to see her be competitively viable and I fear an overreaching change will ensure she goes back into the darkness.

When you guys say "we're considering nerfs for x", you include those nerfs during the first day of the cycle. That cycle will have changes for supports on live that will change the power balance, perhaps away from Karma. I just ask that you preserve mid Karma's power level and be judicious with support Karma changes. If RE needs more deliberateness or buildup, tackle that. Just don't kill Karma on a whim, please.

Lissandroid6/25/2016, 6:14:48 AM3 votes

Alistar needs his passive updated to reflect what he does In the game. At present what Alistar does in game is get wrecked in 2v2 lanes to Zyra, Sona, Nami, Bard, Soraka, and forces his team to give up early dragons due to bot being pushed in. He has trouble sustaining and trouble all-ining currently. He is a complete mess. Alistar should be the answer to the current support meta. I really hope these changes are significant and positive.

Twin TaiIs6/25/2016, 5:22:57 AM2 votes

Dont touch Elise please. She is fine the way she is right now. She is picked cuz she's consistent at what she does. Buff other junglers instead. Just dont remove Elise from playability again....

Elise Kythera6/25/2016, 5:57:42 PM2 votes

@meddler What kind of changes are you thinking for Elise? I really feel like shes in a good spot atm and would hate to see that ruined.

Fisherman Fízz6/24/2016, 9:41:47 PM2 votes

Despite the recent nerfs, Fizz is still being picked as a tank toplane, any plans for him in the future patches?

Derp Cranberry6/25/2016, 5:10:08 PM2 votes

Why nerf Karma? She's fine in both solo Q and even if she's seeing pro play she doesn't really change the whole game. Imo she's fine, no need to need her.

DarkIce6/25/2016, 1:59:27 AM2 votes

Please Sona needs changes especially her auras. Their range is not big enough to help the team. Her (E) is not much of use.Sona

Garrotte6/24/2016, 10:12:27 PM2 votes

@meddler is there a world where cloud gets permanently slain? On a scale of 1 to "C9 giving both supports equal playing time" how committed are you to having 4 different drags?