Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 19

RiotMeddler·7/19/2019, 3:26:05 PM·1 votes·120,993 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


9.14

As you've likely seen 9.14 has been pretty buggy, especially because we've had a couple of underlying issues that have caused issues with a range of champs, runes etc. We've got a lot of those dealt with at this point and are prioritizing hitting the rest. Apologies for how messy patch day especially was.

Bugs aside, we also knew this patch would be more volatile on the balance front given how many changes we made. We released a balance micropatch last night, details should be in the updated patch notes.

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-914-notes

Ryze

Ryze's changes have been out for a bit now, have had some exposure to pro play and have had some follow up balance. Some thoughts below on how we're feeling about him as a result:

  • Statistically we're cautiously optimistic this version of Ryze will be easier to keep in an ok spot for both pro and regular play at once. He's performing better in solo queue than previously without being overly dominant so far at least in pro.
  • We're taking a cautious approach to buffs to him, given how challenging he's been in the past to balance. Might still have some room for a bit more power, really don't want to swing to hard though.
  • We're seeing some frustration from people who liked Ryze's mechanical optimizations pre 9.12 at the degree they've been diminished. We do think this version of the kit should be one we can more consistently keep balanced, so so far think that removing some of those optimizations was an appropriate trade off to make. Do want to acknowledge that it came at a cost though and that that's tough for players who preferred his previous state.
  • We discussed changes to Ryze's ult pre 9.12, given it heavily rewards coordination between team members in a way that's usually more accessible in pro/organized play. Our conclusion was that while it added some cost to balancing for different contexts it wasn't the primary cause of problems there. It also generates many of his high moments and adds a lot of distinctiveness relative to other champions.

Looking at Prestige Points

We’ve been seeing a lot more feedback about some of the details of how Prestige Points and Prestige Skins work recently. We’re digging through that feedback and looking at possible plans to address it right now. We should have an update to share by the end of next week on what we’ll be doing.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

158 Comments

DeathBurst7/19/2019, 3:36:32 PM28 votes

A totally unrelated question, but this Quick Thoughts are the best way to reach you, so...

QoL update for Sona: Give her an "ammo" bar similar to Annie/Irelia to see when her passive is up and what chord is ready, pretty please?

IzzŸ7/19/2019, 3:38:01 PM17 votes

Give Ashe a .35 AP ratio on her W pretty please? I want AP Ashe to be playable in normals!!! Not strong, just playable!

Galehaut 7/19/2019, 3:37:41 PM9 votes

Shaco bugs:

Not spawning at cursor after ult Clone not attacking after spawn, even when commanding him to do so Clone standing still after shacos death, even when enemies are in close range Boxes not prioritizing champions Being visible for a short while after q cast when having a dot on you (people will still get 1 auto attack off and see you for around 0.5s) Invis canceling when having cursor close to enemy when casting Clone not procing certain onhits like statikks/guinsoos E canceling its cast sometimes Certain runes/keystones not working with clone (PTA/Conq) Boxes not attacking inhibs/nexus sometimes Clone can only attack nexus/inhib when pressing alt+mb2 and not r Clone not attacking anything in general Backstabs being inconsistent on jungle monsters Not able to dodge damage/abilities (not invulnerable during r cast) Clone no backstab indicator anymore (intended?) Clone having stealth movement animation when ulting during q Tower always targeting shaco after utling when only he and clone are under tower, not whats closest (intended?) Attack move sometimes makes enemy follow you so they know which way you q'ed Since clone copies stats and items, things like hextech revolver are already on cd when clone spawns, so he cant proc it anymore Clone walking back to shaco for no reason short time after play input Clone dmg not counting towards total dmg at end of game screen Shaco box getting hit by skillshots while in stleath Box fear causes jungle camps to stay in a resetting state if they are used as the first initiation of combat (causes hp of camp to reset) Randomly spawning way too far away after ult, not even in direction of cursor

WITH THE RECENT ADDITION OF 9.14:

Shaco throws shiv with crit animation (visual bug) (/u/AsnenOfficial thanks)
Shaco no longer has animation cancels ( deceive into recall, tp, e, tiamat no longer works and reveals you instantly)
Backstab doesn't scale with CDR anymore, always stays at 3s no matter how much CDR (states that its always 3 sec, no matter how much cd) (thanks Darmausgang)
Backstab angels are weird now and harder to hit
Avarosan Prodigy7/19/2019, 3:31:09 PM8 votes

So what you're saying is that it's extremely unlikely we'll see any power given to Ryze before worlds and that his Q passive is going to remain a power sink in his budget despite not feeling rewarding?

Kei1437/19/2019, 3:28:23 PM6 votes

Hey meddler, can you give us the thought process on why guaranteed items were pulled from the TFT patch?

Spideraxe7/19/2019, 3:30:51 PM5 votes

Also can I ask if you have any comment to say on the Pantheon assets that showed on PBE

DJBlackVoice7/19/2019, 4:00:10 PM5 votes

Shaco ? Maybe its time to realy start to do something? 200 upvote post and nothing?

Yahikø7/19/2019, 4:01:45 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler !

Any plans for LeBlanc changes in the upcoming weeks ?

She has 45.9% winrate ( U.GG ), and she has less than 5% pickrate in challenger / GrandMaster. I don't know if she need damage or cdr etc but please, she's so hard to play ..

Jabalor7/19/2019, 3:45:18 PM4 votes

What are your thoughts on the shield breaking champions? Renekton, Blitz. How this new interaction landed? Would it be possible to bring Irelia's shield passive interaction back too?

Over Justice7/19/2019, 3:38:22 PM4 votes

Can you share any info about the new progression/achievement system hinted in January? We know it's coming soon ( https://twitter.com/KenAdamsNSA/status/1151030747630714881 ).

Ćount Kledula7/19/2019, 4:33:07 PM4 votes

Hey Opinion on Swain changes?

Nahtew7/19/2019, 4:26:41 PM4 votes

Hello Meddler! I know this might not be your field, but I have been looking for answers about this since the patch dropped and cannot find any anywhere. Are the mini-map hover changes intended for outside of TFT?

I am talking about this: https://i.imgur.com/5x5wyIm.png

If these are intended, is it possible we can get an option to disable or revert back to what it used to be before patch 9.14? I am finding this change incredibly distracting.

EDIT: Also, while I am here... Can you please consider giving Ashe E ability 'Hawkshot' a 1-mana-cost like you did with Kassadin W 'Nether Blade' back in 8.13 for Tear of the Goddess builds, thanks!~

shofaz7/19/2019, 4:27:33 PM3 votes

Hello Meddler, before reading this wall of text, there is a TLDR and I had posted this a few days ago on the gameplay boards. This is just taking a look at applying Riot's balancing framework on Viktor and Jhin.

TL;DR: Using Riot's Balance Framework, both Viktor and Jhin are not eligible for buffs and yet Jhin is getting buffs while Viktor isn't when (arguably) Viktor needs them more? In the case of champions feeling bad, how does Riot determine which champions to buff if they dont fall under their criteria? Link to Balance Framework: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/05/dev-champion-balance-framework

Riot did say that they created the Balance Framework to hold them accountable, so I thought I'd give it a go at it.

Before I start, I am going to say that I am a Viktor main so of course there will be a bit of bias, but I still find these results kind of interesting anyway.

Anyway, I was wondering that since Viktor felt kind of weak, I would use Riot's Balance Framework to see if he is eligible for buffs or not. So I went to u.gg (forgot where I heard this, but I think a rioter said its the site that matches their internal data the most) and globally checked the win rate of Viktor in each elo. This was done on 7/16/2019. I also included Viktor Top since a significant enough number of players played him top, so I did some math to include the total winrate of Viktor top and mid. After that I will have one exclusively done on mid lane Viktor since I do heavily favor Viktor mid personally. I still did one though combining Top lane Viktor simply because he was played enough to have a significant impact on the overall winrate and they also go for the same builds as mid Viktor. Anyway here are the results for mid and top combined by elo:

Iron: 53.39% winrate with 118 matches Bronze: 51.19% winrate with 7224 matches Silver: 49.78% winrate with 31758 matches Gold: 49.97% winrate with 42608 matches Platinum: 48.61% winrate with 20890 matches Diamond: 47.45% winrate with 7205 matches (2.6% presence) Master: 46.08% winrate with 217 matches (2.8% presence) Grandmaster: 50.30% winrate with 330 matches (2.6% presence) Challenger: 47.2% winrate** with 125 matches (2.3% presence) Pro play: Do not know exact number, but I'm almost certain that it is below 5%, considering how uncommon he is seen in pro play.

And here is Viktor mid exclusively:

Iron: 57.14% winrate with 119 matches Bronze: 51.13% winrate with 7944 matches Silver: 50.4% winrate with 35203 matches Gold: 49.75% winrate with 46883 matches Platinum: 49% winrate with 22435 matches Diamond: 47.35% winrate with 7527 matches (2% presence) Master: 46.91% winrate with 194 matches (1.9% presence) Grandmaster: 50.38% winrate with 266 matches (1.6% presence) Challenger: 46.51% winrate with 86 matches (1.2% presence)

So some things that interested me is that Viktor's winrate would decline the higher elo you are. I was somewhat surprised by this, considering Viktor is a moderately hard champion. However, I would disregard Iron, simply because of its absurdly low sample size. One theory I have on why Viktor has a good winrate in low elo is because people in that elo rarely ever see a Viktor and do not know how to deal with one. Especially since most people that play Viktor are probably mains due to his low pick rate (around 2-3% overall). But the higher elo you go, the more game knowledge players have, and know how to exploit Viktor's weaknesses harshly.

Despite these numbers saying that Viktor does not need a buff, I would beg to differ based on another champion Riot is buffing the very next patch that does not need a buff according to their own framework: Jhin.

So here are Jhin's winrates by every elo:

Iron: 51.43% winrate with 1919 matches Bronze: 50.21% winrate with 112866 matches Silver: 50.25% winrate with 327930 matches Gold: 50.42% winrate with 291052 matches Platinum: 50.32% winrate with 103155 matches Diamond: 49.61% winrate with 24423 matches (9.2% presence) Master: 49.48% winrate with 382 matches (5% presence) Grandmaster: 44.23% winrate with 529 matches (4.1% presence) Challenger: 47.89% winrate with 142 matches (2.7% presence) Pro Play: Don't know, but probably super low.

So according to Riot's own Balance Framework, Jhin does not need a buff either. So, why are they buffing Jhin? Probably because he does not feel so good to play at higher elos. Although it is less severe than Viktor's, Jhin's winrate does lower a bit the higher the elo you go as well. The patch notes even says "Adding some power into the part of Jhin's kit that rewards timing and coordination". In other words, they are rewarding skilled Jhin players who are able to more consistently hit their W root.

So why not buff Viktor for high elo, considering that his winrate is far worse than Jhin's the higher the elo you go? Because the way his kit is designed, it benefits more in coordinated play. Due to 2015-2016 and Tank Viktor Top, Riot has been immensely cautious in buffing Viktor as they think that he could immediately become p/b in pro play. But the factors that made Viktor so strong in 2015-2016 are gone now (less mobility champs at the time, Rylais, etc.) and Tank Viktor Top will not come back unless they buff his Q (which they won't do). So they should be able to give Viktor mains buffs that help people who are experienced with Viktor without causing him to be OP in pro play. Now what should they do; I dont know for sure. But I am leaning on the idea of either buffing his early game a bit or some QoL buffs on his ult to make it not so impossible to get at least one tick on the enemy champion.

That's just my idea, but the thing is is that both Viktor and Jhin don't feel the best to play atm in higher elos but neither of them fit Riot's balance framework requirements for a buff. And yet they decide to buff Jhin and not Viktor.

Currently I feel like Viktor is 'meh' but DOES have room for some small buffs that will help experienced Viktor players. And if Riot decided to buff Jhin to help out more experienced Jhin players, then why not buff Viktor for experienced Viktor players especially considering that Viktor's winrate deteriorates far more harshly than Jhin's the higher the elo you go? Especially if its a small and yet useful buff?

DCYOUNG8887/19/2019, 3:36:10 PM3 votes

How is Qiyana Qiyana doing after 3 weeks of being on the live server? I know this isn't your field but is Qiyana going to get her kit adjusted for ARAM and to the extent Twisted Treeline?

FrankTheBoxMnstr7/19/2019, 5:18:12 PM3 votes

Is there any chance that we can get an in-depth explanation of what exactly caused this patch to release so buggy or what was the source of said bugs?

AIQ7/19/2019, 6:09:27 PM3 votes

So is your team just flat out unable to fix Warwick W? I understand he's not a poster child, but I find it a bit ridiculous that no one can fix the bugs on WW.

Balance wise, are you just unable to give Shyvana scaling with elder and fury while dead? Is there some chart that says if Shyvana gets 5 arm/MR at 35 minutes she will be broken?

Are these too hard to implement? I understand that players have a bias towards certain champions, but it's a little insane that these champions get neglected so much balance wise.

Can you just not approach anyone and say "hey this is a thing can we get it fixed?" could your company hire someone to fix these problems if your team is unable to?

FafliX7/19/2019, 6:20:51 PM3 votes

So, will you finally allow players to earn Prestige Points without spending money, and make it so buying them with lots of money isn't possible anymore? Because at it sits now, the whole system looks like a cheap "mobile game tier" moneygrab. "Make the grind so hard and long that players either give up mid way and buy the rest, or fall just short and due to the sunken cost fallacy buy the rest."

Yes, it's just cosmetics, so it's not as bad as something like Battlefront 2, but it's still really scummy. And the worst part is that you can't even buy the passes with BE, meaning you are forced to spend money if you want any Prestige Skins. That's not very prestigious if you ask me.

PandaNator437/19/2019, 3:34:26 PM2 votes

How did you conclude Ryze's ult wasn't the primary cause of problems?

Just curious to know your process.

Amoodaa7/20/2019, 7:58:13 PM2 votes

can we at least get to choose the skins that go into our inventory ? rerolling and getting a skin that i do not want, but i have a skin shard that could benefit from this orange essence is better, i know i can reroll earlier, but i get skins to champs i dont play alot, and i dont want tpa shen in my inventory immediately its disgusting

Dohvah7/27/2019, 8:26:29 AM2 votes

Hi, I've just been looking into how many champions I have / how many I need. I've been playing since season 5 and currently own 111 champions. Of the remaining 34, most are on the more expensive side of things, amounting to 179100 BE. According to Riot Mortdog, we get on average 910 BE / Capsule and 2120 BE / Milestone Capsule. that's 10310 BE / 10 Levels. After some research, I found that on average a player can expect about 180 XP / 30 min game. I'm currently lvl 132, requiring 2880 XP / lvl. That's 16 30 minute games per level, amounting to 8 hours play. Scaling this up we need 80 hours of play to get 10 lvls or 10310 BE. So to acquire all champions ingame I would still need to play at least 1390 hours (58 whole days), not counting higher XP needed for higher levels. Is it only my opinion or is this a bit exorbitant, considering I've been at it for about 4 years, playing on average 1-1,5 hrs/day? I mean as there are new champions getting released about every 1,5 months it gets harder and harder for new players to even own a reasonable amount of champions (not only for playing yourself but for swapping in champ select etc.). Just for reference, for 6300 BE you need to play around 49 hrs (6300/(10310/80)). Playing one hour per day is thus just enough to even keep up with the champions released!

ValiantDogFood7/19/2019, 6:22:22 PM2 votes

I think Galio won't be able to really maintain a healthy playstyle for both Solo queue and competitive play with his current kit. What would your thoughts be on a revert to his W and R to pre-rework galio, since his Ultimate especially is the biggest skill gap ability in his kit that really shines with coordinated CC you don't see as much in solo queue, and his old W fits thematically as he absorbs magic to heal himself while also being a unique ability a lot of people miss from old galio.

PoppyxQhP7/20/2019, 4:04:45 PM2 votes

Qiyana doing no dmg after enemy build one armor item in late pls buff her she is so weak right now in late

Huncho Stuntin7/19/2019, 8:52:24 PM2 votes

hey bro when u going to fix FPS issues coz it's super unstable to play on, even at 60 FPS capped it feels like i'm playing on 30 fps sometimes due to so many r%%%%%ed lagspikes and freezes this game has, fix it pref

Eevree7/19/2019, 9:01:23 PM2 votes

Appropriate trade-off? Come on, he's completely unfun to play now. You changed him into a QE spambot; he may be better to balance but he lost too much flavor. You should also change his ult, given that in non coordinated team it's like a russian roulette; if the issue is its uniqueness, you should create an even more unique ability that is accessible to all people.

Ngozi987/20/2019, 4:56:24 AM2 votes

Are there any plans for Rune changes? The last major set of rune changes were specifically targeted at Conqueror, but other runes need some love too! At the moment, some runes just seem too powerful while others are lack luster in comparison. Here are some comments and suggestions: **Domination Tree: ** ~~-Sudden impact's magic penetration is very small. But at the same time, don't buff Katarina. ~~

  • Ravenous hunter is a good example of a "One size fits all" rune, as it provides huge sustain late game. A little too reliable. Sorcery Tree: -Actually every rune on this tree seems completely fine. Precision Tree:
  • Conqueror lasts too long on melee champions. Fiora, Olaf, and Darius can 'conqueror' opponents by only pressing Q every 8 seconds! Considering reducing duration down to 7 or even 6 seconds for the stacks to wear off so us top laners can really get our hands dirty.
  • Lethal Tempo's upper limit is too high. While hail of blade's gives the same 110% attack speed at level 1, lethal tempo gives 6 seconds on uncapped destruction. ADCs like Xayah, Kog'maw and Twitch deal unparalleled amounts of damage during these 6 seconds.
  • Triumph is too reliable. Not only does it mitigate the effects of ignite, but also encourages reckless tower diving from Tryndamere . Consider changing the healing 15% of missing health to over 5 seconds instead of 12% after about a second. **Resolve Tree: **
  • Font of Life is just bad. It's understandable that it's hard to balance a rune that heals allies but isn't the keystone. It would be nice if font of life was replaced entirely, as it's so insignificant in games. Inspiration Tree:
  • Future's Market is not used often as the other 2 options in the row are more useful.
OwOmis7/19/2019, 4:07:56 PM2 votes
  1. Are you still looking at an Irelia nerf ? how big will it be?
  2. In an earlier post you mentioned that you think Jayce needs more work than a straight up nerf due to his "toxic gameplay pattern". Will we get to see any changes around preseason? Perhaps a powershift into the midgame?
Naalith7/19/2019, 4:32:10 PM2 votes

Not so much a "balance" discussion but I was wondering what your thoughts are on champions who show up in every game. Lee Sin, Ezreal, and Yasuo are basically a permanent fixture of every game played and it really makes the game feel stale.

CyberCelebi7/19/2019, 7:10:39 PM

Hello Meddler! I was wondering if there were any plans to buff Shaco Shaco in the near future? This recent patch came with his own plethora of bugs and the clarity change on his Q and W interaction is a massive nerf. Lot’s of love to you and the balance team <3