Diana changes on PBE

Hey @Squad5 , respect, those changes looks intresting... Not trying to make myself big or anything but i would like to say i m maybe guy with most games played with diana and i have big exp with diana in master+ elo in last 3-4 years. I see u guys made some changes to Diana so let me give u so informations, i see u rly nerf her pasiv dmg and her r(E) dmg and give her dmg on E(new R) dmg, this my friends means that diana depends on hiting E(new R) to kill, thats fine, but not if u put a delay of 1 sec, what this means ? hmm all untargetable champs : Fizz,Zed, Vladimir, Eve, elise, camile, kayne, rek sai, xayah.... and all champs with dashes like Ahri, Akali, Azir,Cait, Camile , Corki, eko ,graves, gnar,Hecarim, Irelia, J4, Jax , Jace, kaisa , kha , le blanc, lee, lucian, pyke ,Rakan, riven ,Renekton, Shivana, shen, sejuani, sylas, Trinda, tristana ,zed..... counter her new r ? Next time when i lock diana vs those champs, etc Leblanc my team will call me trol ? cuz she need to hard missplay so i can hit r? why diana needs to depend on enemys missplaying ( all champs i put on list above) so she can land r ? Etc cha elo game, diana vs lets say fiz, ahri, vlad... i click r and they have 1 sec to get out or go untargetable and my r is wasted? this means if old diana used to do 1k dmg to those champs now she is doing 600 at max with those nerfs on P,R. So basically u cant play diana in Master+? same problem she had before( after rqr removal, i know 90% ppl here dont know for it, but u should do as ppl who work it riot) , i dont see u guys fix anything here? yes she might be good in gold elo at least. And what if lets say fizz goes Zhonya ? he has 2 ways to dodge my r dmg ? i can win him doing what ? nothing is in my hands... make 1 of those changes :

-make us choose do we want to wait 1 sec or press r again for instant dmg -dmg is activated 1 sec after u cast r no metter if someone was in your r or not ( situation where we can use this is in tf when u hide over wall and then do r flash e to enemys in tf, only way to hit more targets in master + elo. -return old RQR technique ( diana r has 825 range, make it casting RQ(EQ) over 800+range reseting r(E) like it used to do till big Season 9 (95%ppl cant do it cuz the used on simple combos so its doesnt metter to them)

• bonus tip: till season 9 u could do "RQ" combo just flasing before your R hits enemy and get r reset but r not doing any dmg, return that too, i dont see any reason for it removal, i used to make rly good plays dodging ahri e with that and etc... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbHVukKmAw4

till s9 diana was champ with combos, just ppl didnt know they exist and u removed all and make her simple and boring, i bet 90%ppl here dont know that diana can swap positions with her enemy like urgot used to do with old r just on lower distance

this is 1 more nerf for high elo diana and buff for lower divsions.

Check those posts u maybe learn something about Diana that you dont know: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/dFvb09E8-diana-riot-zhanos https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/FrovfpFZ-diana-extremly-nerfed-3-combos-removed-riot-zhanos

These look really solid! Can't wait to test them out

While I love changes to my main, I'm really bothered by this as well. There will be zero playmaking potential outside of her ultimate. The old E was such a strong ability to catch somebody with, stop their dashes or simply pull them in after jumping to a minion. Losing that potential is going to feel awkward.

Not to mention that the long cooldown really only gives you one chance at doing that.

I'll have to see.

wait but... she still applies all her damage once it seems??? I dont see how this changes her away from assassin to diver that much ngl. Q W and dash combo is still there? I guess I will have to wait and see how much of her AP ratios were moved around and if any base stat changes happened but not going to lie right now Im feeling kinda worried that the point of missed of why Diana needed changes in the first place. Also Im not going to lie though I would had prefered a more unique utility after effect on Moonfall instead of MOAR DAMAGE. A unique utility to decouple her from technically being replaceable by Akali,Fizz or just any other AP assassin (fighter??) really. maybe like a cool gravity effect that affected people with a debuff that would pull them back if they tried to dash or something? a memorable effect like Bard portal or Windwall....

Either way I am interested in this. Diana was always a lowkey fave champion of mine. very simplistic and cathartic gameplay with a clearcut goals for laning(spampush!) and lategame (splitpush and duel!) which is something I really enjoyed.

Hello there! I'm a diamond rank Diana main here, first time posting about Diana on the boards! I've been maining her ever since she came out in 2012. I believe I should have well over 10,000 games of experience on her, counted across a few other accounts I play on. This is just my personal two cents about all of Diana's changes I see here. Really wanted to get my voice out there since the changes are so major!

Diana's passive:

• The attack speed decoupling seems alright, although I don't actually have a PBE account to test it. I play Diana in both jungle and mid, and I remember that Diana jungle overall felt slightly slower than before when her attack speed bonus became "next three hits only" and attached to her E. Hopefully this will keep Diana jungle at about the same clear speed as before? I believe that the overall goal isn't to nerf or buff Diana, correct? So, hopefully her jungle is still viable and at about the same pace (in fact, it might even be slightly faster than before, early game at least, since E now has damage).

• The mana changes look good. Diana has always had one of the most prohibitive mana pools of all mages/assassins, nearing the bottom of the base mana list for how much mana she started with. Passive restoration is very low for the most part and encourages too much lane pushing which can sometimes be unsafe. New mana costs look quite reasonable.

• Diana's passive damage seems to have gone down from 0.8 AP ratio to 0.4 on the PBE. May I ask why? In my humble opinion, this damage is probably one of the healthiest parts of the combo. Opponents know to keep their distance because of her passive glow if she holds it up, she can't hold it up for long, and when jumping on someone, this part of the damage is delayed. I do request that her passive damage is retained so that she can also maintain some DPS in longer, sustained fights where she can't burst someone from 100-0.

Diana's Q: just a 5 mana reduction buff. Not much to say here.

Diana's W: a larger mana reduction buff, combined with a slight lowering of base value in exchange for 10% bonus HP scaling. I'm okay with this, because it opens up Diana's build to incorporate items like Rod of Ages, for a more bruiser-style build. But if Diana is being encouraged to build bruiser style, why must her passive's damage ratio, her main source of consistent DPS over a sustained fight, be nerfed? That seems to be contradictory with each other.

Diana's new E, Lunar Rush:

• Here's something that I would like to bring up that's unrelated to any buffs/nerfs. I, and I'm sure countless other Diana mains out there, have deeply ingrained muscle memory of QRR combos and so on. Changing her dash from R to E seems like it will be an extreme hassle for us to get accustomed to. I know that if this goes through, I will be swapping my R and E keybinds to each other whenever I want to play Diana. However, even Diana mains want to play other champions on occasion! Is there any way that Riot can consider keeping Lunar Rush on R still, but allowing her to level it pre-6, similar to how Udyr can? I would like to ask if the cost of that would outweigh all the re-learning that all Diana players must put in to get used to using her dash on a new key, or swapping her R and E keybinds like I plan on doing should this change go through.

• The damage has been nerfed in exchange for allowing Diana to access this spell and its mobility from level 1 onwards. This seems fair enough, as obviously nobody wants Diana to become a super oppressive level 2 champion all of a sudden with this change.

Diana's new R, Moonfall:

• Swapped with Lunar Rush (E) 100/90/80s Cooldown 100 Mana Reveals and draws in all nearby enemies and slows them by 40/50/60% for 2 seconds. If Diana pulls in one or more enemy champions, the moonlight crashes down onto her after 1 second, dealing 200/300/400 (+60% AP) magic damage in an area around her, increased by 35/60/85 (+15% AP) for each target beyond the first pulled.

• The above is a copy paste from surrender@20's info on Diana's new ultimate. Here's my takeaway:

• Diana's identity that I presume most Diana mains will agree with me on is as an assassin with relatively lower cooldowns than others, in exchange for a lack of utility. Her kit as it currently stands is basically just damage, with a minor slow/pull that nobody will ever say is the main reason they pick her. In fact, prior to the old Moonfall E rework that coupled attack speed to it, I would never even level her E until level 13, and was quite successful with that even in high diamond back in the day.

• Thus, having a 100 second CD, high impact ultimate doesn't seem to fit the fantasy that I, and other Diana players (forgive me for presuming about what other Diana players want though) would like to see. I would be quite happy instead to see an ultimate with half the cooldown and half the damage. Or, better yet, if her ultimate had 20-30~ seconds CD just like before. Low impact is fine. What's important is the ability to make plays.

• It feels really, really bad to have an ultimate ability's damage be dependent on the opponent's skill level rather than yourself. Having the ultimate's damage be 100% avoidable feels painfully bad for the player. For instance, Malphite has always historically had a lower winrate in high elo compared to regular games. This is because higher elo players have better reactions, and they're much better about flashing his ultimate. A 1 second delay should be nothing to most high elo players for avoiding the damage as long as their flash is still up, even on a zero mobility champion.

• Thus, my suggestion is, could the ultimate's damage portion be changed to be some type of skill check for the Diana player as well as the enemy? I would like to bring Zed ultimate up as an example of this, although I'm not sure what a similar iteration would be like for Diana. Zed is rewarded for landing his skillshots after he ultimates, while the opponent is rewarded for dodging them. That's fair gameplay for both sides. For Diana's current proposed ultimate, she has almost zero control on whether the ultimate's damage lands or not. Even if Zed misses all his skillshots, he at least gets a minor amount of damage!

And finally, a few overall comments.

• I haven't seen it mentioned by rioters, but again just to check, the goal is to keep Diana power neutral, without buffing or nerfing, correct? Let's look at the numbers on her changes. At level 6, she'll have lost 0.4 AP ratio on her passive, 0.2*2 AP ratio on her new E, and gained a 0.6 AP ratio on her ultimate. That's a net 0.2 AP ratio nerf. She also loses 10 base HP on her shield, but that doesn't affect her damage and there's the bruiser build buff later down the road if you build Rod of Ages or other HP. Assuming that players continue to max Q on her as usual, when we look at her total damage numbers at level 6, which is when most Dianas like to start going all-in, Diana has actually gained +80 damage, since old R (with 2 applications) and new R both do 200 damage, assuming the ultimate hits, and E now does 80 damage with 2 applications. With a .2 AP ratio nerf, let's say Diana has 50 AP on average at level 6, that maths out to about +70 damage in total on the new Diana's kit.

• In a way, maybe this will actually make Diana snowball even easier, but only on lower elo opponents. Isn't this something that Riot wishes to avoid? Part of what was mentioned was a lack of counterplay opportunities against her when she was ahead. With a damage buff on her full combo at 6, this will only be made easier, especially because lower elo players have more trouble dodging something like delayed damage and higher elo players will not. This seems like it will exacerbate her problems, thus resulting in potential nerfs down the road.

• My personal suggestions: keep Diana's baseline damage at level 6 approximately the same, meaning nerf the damage that's currently on PBE. At level 6 with zero kills, it's actually quite hard to 100-0 most mages as it is. Good Diana players weaken the enemy first before engaging all-in. Give Diana's passive damage ratio back, because it's one of the healthier parts of the kit, and promotes alternate bruiser-style gameplay patterns as well. Nerf the ultimate damage. Buff the ultimate cooldown in order to fit Diana's playstyle better.

• Finally, what is Diana's identity, really? I believe that she's an AP bruiser-style assassin. However, Diana is a champion that has not been seen in many years at worlds. Her kit almost completely lacks utility. She has offensive mobility but lacks defensive escape tools (which is fine, I think she's balanced like this, I'm not asking for her new ultimate to tack on an escape ability or anything). She doesn't stand out in any one area; she has no unique niche of her own. But as for me, the seven year Diana main, I believe that pushing is one of her strong suits. She is one of the strongest pushing assassin/mages out there, and perhaps this could be explored as part of her identity?

Thank you for your time if you read this. I really hope to hear back from a Rioter! I'd also be happy to answer any Diana questions you may have.

Thanks for your work, Diana players will enjoy the changes!

I have few questions.

1. The ultimate has a True Sight effect, right?
2. Don't you think that what Diana needed the most was an escape and not an ultimate which will make her die by pulling onto her all the ennemies? What I want to highlight is that an assasin needs to jump on its target and then, to escape. I mean, all the assasins in the game have an escape, or at least something to survive. It's not the case with this new Diana.

Are you still planning on Lunar Rush to clear moonlight off of all targets when used, like the prior ult form of it?

im main and i so Hyped!!!!

Just wanna say thank you, so far it looks amazing!

Looking forward for PBE!

As a Diana OTP I'm so excited! Can't wait to see how everything feels. Thanks for taking a look at her!

This update is Superb! Simple, clean changes. I hope we get more like this in the future. Great job!

Hello Blake! Humm, 22 seconds for one dash? IDK it is too much? Hey Yasuo how are you?

[sg-lux-2]

To me both in name and feel for the ult/kit, I think Moonfall applying or potentially applying moonlight would be really cool. Implementing it might mean the ult deals less base damage, but the thought of pulling everyone in then having the 'moonfall' on them and proceeding to jump around would truly be an ultimate ability! Lots of potential for plays and flashiness and adds a little bit of teamfight viability- since the new R is intended for that anyway rather than being a solo assassin ability.

@Squad5 have you thought about keeping her dash on the "R" button, and just making her "E" her ultimate, but on the "E" button? As someone with 3 mil points on diana (across all my accounts) I will always click on R by instinct for the dash, because I've played Diana since her release and I got used to her dash being on her R.

It's like if you put Irelia's dash on her "E", when you guys were reworking her, doesn't make much sense, does it?

Lastly, a quick question - Irelia insta QQ is much faster than Diana's live RR? is that fixed now or is it intended to not be as quickly recastable?

Hi, when diana ults it seems she spasms. Have a look at this: https://youtu.be/O02XmLIDj8M?t=47

Just pause when she ults, shes crooked af

Hi everyone! I started playing League earlier this season (~300h of playtime, Platinum 4 in ranked), so I may not have as much a say in this as others, since I've only known Diana's most recent iteration before the rework. Still, I fell in love with Diana since I first started playing her a few months ago, and she is pretty much my main drive to play right now. Thus, I thought I'd leave my 2 cents on what I've felt so far playing the reworked version of Diana.

I'll be honest: playing the reworked Diana feels very underwhelming.

The AP assassin route has been utterly and undeniably gutted. You don't even get close to oneshotting anyone, even when insanely fed, which for the past season was Diana's defining trait. Her passive damage has been heavily nerfed. Her w damage has been nerfed. Her previous ult (now her e) damage has been nerfed to testimonial levels. It is almost purely mobility now, but of the worst kind, because you still can't dash to allied targets (the one change that would make Diana into an actually viable champion in high elo/competitive) to escape. Now, you engage with the same certainty of death (don't think going bruiser Diana helps any, because it doesn't. You will still die and deal little to no damage), but without any guarantees of killing anyone. Not even the 0/10 support.

Frankly, having to rely on her new ult (her previous e) to even come close to killing anyone (still not guaranteed tho) is a major letdown. It feels like casting a watered down version of Orianna's ult on yourself, with significantly less damage, no cc, and abysmal cast time in comparison. Plus, don't forget you're pulling the enemy champions to you, so they can wipe the floor with you even easier! ;)

Overall, I'm not happy at all with the changes as they stand right now. I've read someone comment, and I wholeheartedly agree, that too much emphasis has been put on making her satisfying to play against, as opposed to play with. Previously, if you played your cards right, you had a small window of time where you could contribute significantly to your teams victory. In her current state, she can no longer do that. In fact, she can't do anything other midlaners can't do much better.

Diana is not special or satisfying to play in any way anymore. And that is just sad.

To end on a positive note, there were some things I did like about the remake. The visuals for one look really cool. Also, changing the dash to a basic ability is actually helpful in some matchups, and I personally liked it.

On the topic of possible improvements, what I would suggest as an easy fix for her current state is to bump up the damage on her passive. Put it back the way it was before. It won't impact her laning strength as much, because early on you don't have much AP anyway, but it would help her get through the mid and late game a bit easier. That may even make her into a viable bruiser, and give her some scary splitpushing potential. She would at least have something going for her that way, since she doesn't oneshot anymore, still has no escapes, and has only been given an unreliable, okayish teamfigth ult as a compensation.

Another way to make her into a champion again would be to finally enable her dash as an escape. Since she doesn't "go in, kill someone, die" anymore, because we are missing the "kill someone" part as of now, it doesn't make sense to hold onto the idea that she is an all-in champion anymore. One possible way to balance it, while retaining some of her old spirit, would be to double the cd on her dash if she uses it to dash to an allied target. That way, you would be discouraging using her dash as a disengage in teamfights, since you wouldn't be able to rejoin the fight for a long time, but it would still help her laning and overall potential as a champion a lot.

Lastly, you could rework her current ult entirely to give her some kind of utility (maybe a taunt? That would combo well with her w) plus instant damage. The current numbers could need some tweaking, to make her feel fair to play against; but it would at least bring back the possibility of going for the assassin build and oneshotting people when extremely ahead, something which sadly isn't viable anymore.

Just my opinion, anyway. Thanks for your time.

I really like the direction! Can you elaborate on why the MS bonus was removed form the previous iteration? I thought that would help massively with Diana's ability to be played more like a bruiser, since she cant access phage.

Honestly. I haven’t tested Diana out yet, but Green Girl has a point. It does feel like you are over-Nerfing Diana’s overall damage and making her into team fight based champion instead.

Please use the old E animation for the new R. The skins that use it still look so much cleaner and I feel it not only looks less jank, but is a such an iconic diana animation imo.

All of this looks, sounds and feels great. I love these changes and I think they make Diana a lot more fun and healthy. Some people are complaining abt the ult, but I personally think its fine? Someone did mention an option for "Double press for lower but more 'guaranteed' damage vs wait 1 second for full affect" and that sounds like it could be nice if you were to go with it but otherwise I think its fine.

One piece of feedback though... her ULT makes... 0 noise at all if you end up whiffing it, it feels super awkward and it makes it feel even more bad than it already does missing it LOL, and I think the animation in general is a little... Off?? Would like some cleanup work there, but otherwise these are some great changes!

Hello everyone! First of all, thanks for turning your eyes on Diana. And sorry for my grammar mistakes.

I was waiting this for a long time.

I play this game since beta(non-continuously but as a casual).And I main Diana with her realase.I love her lore and kit etc. etc. And I want to add my humble opinions based on this thread.

I believe that I will also love the new lore if it's gonna change. I thought this rework will be Katarina/Akali/Talon sized rework.Since, Riot wants her as a bruiser mage,I was hoping that she's gonna end up like Riven style gameplay. I do not know why but I was hoping for this,that why,I feel let down with this changes. I mean I fell in love with Katarina rework mechanics and Akali mechanics as well.And I was waiting this kind of a work on Diana for a long time.(really really long time);New mechanics such as her Q or maybe shifting phases like phases of moon. Weapon changes maybe ;New moon stealth assassin, Crescent bruiser,Full Moon shielding tank etc. etc. But I'm aware that I was hyped from nothing.

Now;

P:Attack speed is awesome, mana remove bad move, and %40 interesting. Q:Very iconic ability thanks for keeping it. W:Nice to have some HP scale. E:Movement spell on E, cliche,nice and a need. R:This is where things get complicated.

I feel that new R doesn't fit at all. That felt more like Annie.Q+E in, Let The Moon Shine,E out?. And then wait for 100 second to do them again.While we can do the same thing now within 26 sec.This felt like, Diana lost her teamwork capability.No more E+Yasuo's R,no more punishing all-in Katarinas, no more you can't run easly if you turret-dive Diana(pre 6) plays...

The thing is, Diana lost her CC,and hew slow, which I believe very un-bruiser.And I have little concerns about laning phase as well with mana recovery,because Pale Cascade is only thing that Diana has to defend herself since Diana doesn't have a CC anymore. And she can't use it a lot because she can't gain hermana back. On the other hand Riven has also shield that she can rely on yet she can use it with no-cost beside she also has 2 CC.I believe we must consider a tiny slow on her Moonsilver Blade to keep presure beside Q+E till end of mana pool,but also to save ourselves. That reminds me there're no mage items corresponding to Phage.

I really like her new E.It's needed,especially in a world where there're lots of unending mobile champions a.k.a. Qiyana. With new E; Diana will become more dangerous before 6.

About Moonsilver Blade; I don't have PBE,that's why I don't know how it's %40 synergizes with attack speed,but I believe it synergizes well.The problem is it can be countered with a little bit movement speed unless Rylai's bought.However, I still believe that Moonsilver Blade need something to sustain health or mana doesn't matter which one.

Lastly,I've played Diana mostly a nuking assassin but I really want to play her as a bruiser mage too.And I believe her kit need lower cooldowns.Moonfall is a great ability to play with please do not cage it with 100 sec cooldown.Thanks for reading and hope to see you all at the Rift.

Unrelated but will Aphelios be available on PBE today as well?

My concern is not having mana on cleave tho, and a 100 sec cd ultimate on an assassin ish champ seems a bit too much... and as a roa nashors otp for years, i'd rather have a shield instead of the slow in the new R, so "bruiser" diana could be more effective... anyways im happy diana got some love, cant wait to see how her laning phase improves vs hard match ups.

[sg-zephyr]

Hey Blake,

I got a chance to play the changes, and wow! I really, REALLY enjoy it.

The new kit is super fun. This type of play style is exactly what I love. There is now somewhat more of an “old” Akali feel to her, which is great.

The numbers seem a little off on her E (underfunded), but honestly not sure how to make it better without overturning her.

Anyway, great job! Really looking forward to playing her on live!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Cheers, JB

Hi may I ask - do you think is possible to add this music to Diana R when she cast it? Maybe even as ambient version would be awesome, or it's just too much unnecessary work?

Thank you

make her ult have a beam come down like leona ult?

Kindly riot, please actually look at your game once in a while. Not only does this completely gut everything about diana, but makes her unplayable in 90% of games against people who have half a brain. Green Girl said everything I was going to and it doesn't need reiterating, but you've comepletely ruined a champion for an entire comunity if these changes go through. sure she MIGHT be viable in gold and below, but past that shes a ruined champion.

And to everyone complaining about that being basic counter play, i have a question, how do you play vs yasuo? Fizz? Talon? Zed? sure you can zhonia's a lot of their damage, but then they turn around and burst you out again with follow up damage because they dont rely on you making mistakes. All of Diana's damage is off of 1 ability with this rework that is more than easily avoided, then it has a 100 second CD delaying her from being a threat.

Leblanc got reverted this past year because she was an assassin the didnt assassinate well because it took to long. Doesn't that feel a little similar to this?

@Squad5 I was think for past couple of days, how to give Diana more bruiser options (so far she is just slightly better early game assassin) and I wonder if her shield could, get Nautilus W treatment - e.g. some kind of bonus while shield is present and maybe lower shield AP ratio and increase HP ratio, so for assassin Diana it's just little extra burst from shield damage when going in, but for bruiser Diana it's more of sustained damage through while shield persists bonus and more survivability.

Hello guys, thanks for giving Diana some love.

Those passive changes look neat. Her Q is unchanged. Her W scaling with HP is something I love, as I love building her tanky.

My concerns on the changed E and R are as follows. While it's cool to be able to get old R pre-6, its cooldown remains roughly the same. Additionaly, after testing in PBE, I've seen her new E reset is not instant, but delayed roughly 0.75s. Also, the loss of utility is enormous, as her pull/slow has now a huge CD. Would it be possible to have her new E microstun or briefly interrupt channels/movement so that she retains her old CC/utility somewhat? Else, I fear her playstyle might shift to one big play on each teamfight rather than her old, smaller, EQR bursts.

is this all arriving later today?