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Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10

RiotRiot Sotere·4/27/2018, 8:07:00 PM·1 votes·174,255 views

Heyas Everyone,

We're going to have some decently impactful jungle changes show up on PBE over the next few days in preparation for the 8.10 patch. Wanted to touch base here so none of the changes felt like they came out of left field and so players have a centralized place to give feedback over the next week or so.

**Goals: **

  • Reduce early lane pressure from junglers
  • Increase the number of jungle v. jungle interactions in the early game
  • Encourage variation in optimal pathing
  • Reduce mana restraints as a hard blocker for champions that want to jungle

High level tactics:

  • There is now only one Rift Scuttler on the map at any given time. The spawn location will be determined randomly, with a lot of notice given ahead of time to where it's going to spawn. Its rewards are also substantially higher than on Live
  • Jungle experience is down early game: most notably this means that routes to level (3) are not as simple as going Buff -> Camp -> Buff. Instead, you hit 3 with the following routes:
  • 2 standard camps and a Rift Scuttler
  • 3 camps if you include a Krug clear
  • 4 standard camps
  • Talisman will return substantially more mana regen based on your missing mana as you clear the jungle
  • Runic Echoes will get a face lift to make it more mage friendly

Rift Scuttler Specific Changes:

  • Base Health :: 800 >>> 1200
  • Health Scaling :: 800 +200 (after first spawn) +60 per level >>> 1200 + 25 per level
  • Experience Granted :: 10 >>> 170
  • Respawn Time :: 180 >>> 150
  • [NEW] Now only one exists on the map at a time
  • Initial Spawn Time :: 2:15 >>> 1:40
  • Gold Reward :: 70 >>> 100
  • Mana Reward On Death :: 10-40 (based off missing Mana percent) >>> 50-200 (based off missing Mana percent)

Will be jumping into this thread throughout the day when I have some spare time to talk about the high level direction. There's a lot of supporting changes for our goals, so the plan is not to get into the weeds until you have the full changelist available on PBE. As always, the changes that first hit PBE are tentative and subject to change. If you feel like a major element is not being considered or neglected, please let me know! We know this is going to impact a wide range of champions in the jungle (that's the intent in large part), and we'll address major outliers and be on the lookout for others negatively impacted. I'm excited for you guys to test it out next week on PBE. :)

760 Comments

Tormentula4/27/2018, 8:15:43 PM407 votes

ugh I really don't like that change at all...

Its going to feel super snowbally/coinflippy with that scuttle crab, meaning you can't plan ahead on what pathing you'll take because you may or may not be getting scuttle level 2. Not to mention first to get scuttle (which again, is going to depend on which camp start you coinflip to) is going to give one player a lead that the other player won't have the resources to catch up with (like another scuttle to go for..). I like to gameplan at loading screen on which lane I'd be better off assisting, and with this change its instead going to be planning around "ok if i somehow manage to get this scuttle then I can outpressure their jg... if". This also makes invading like the level 2 wolves cheese all the more toxic and uncounterable as that basically gives them a camp, your flash, and their scuttle pretty much free early levels.

IMO you shouldn't do the random 1 scuttle on the map, that just limits playstyles and makes things was more complicated. Keep both scuttles with the change, IMO that's fine, but contesting one RNG scuttle (or even non-rng) just seems unhealthy and unfun and less skill expressive and more "what champ gets this fastest" into the slipperly slope of "nerf early junglers but wait tanks are faster clearers, w.e we'll leave them alone!"

If you wanted to fix the jungle, you should've just mass nerfed a lot of junglers to be strong/weak depending on what their clear strengths are. Example: Is WW an early game champ? I don't know.. he ganks better than all early junglers, he power spikes mid game better then them, he face tanks and still chunks everybody late game.. and he has the healthiest clear in the game to the point of not needing to start pots. I think its fine if a champ for early ganking is early gankiing.. but right now it feels like a lot of champs that play for late game are monsters early game with how healthy and fast they clear, which was previously a weakness of theirs.

I liked when early game junglers camped and their weakness was falling behind later but if they got ahead they could carry the early game for a team advantage... now tanks do that but better, more reliably, and faster without falling off. So basically this is an unchanged problem with these changes and overall the jungle role gets shittier to play.

..Or do the simple "delay first camp spawn" instead of this scuttle rework.. or make camps actually respawn faster so there's something else for us to do beside sit in one lane and hope taxing keeps us early game junglers from falling off a building while their tank just naturally has double our pressure and double our CS

Oh and how will this work: Kindred

mabarry34/27/2018, 8:52:24 PM117 votes

Not a fan. At all. Basically makes level 2 invaders/gankers outright god tier because they have agency at level 2 to do whatever they want - stuff like Camille, Jax, J4, Trundle, etc. Champs that really want their third ability to fight people (Elise, Kha'Zix, etc) are going to be forced into unfavorable lvl2 fights in river or just have to cede the entirety of early game pressure as a result of losing scuttle because now it's not just vision and 60 exp, it's vision and 230, more than half a level...

Also level 2 invading on the opposite side as scuttle crab is inherently dangerous, and trying to do buff>their buff while they do buff>scuttle leaves you in the exact same opening for them to just loop into your jungle, and take the buff you left behind to grab theirs. Still a gigantic net win for the person who got the scuttle

And the most important thing hasn't even been mentioned yet - red buff. The player who has red buff on the same side of the map as scuttle is going to be drastically more powerful than the one with blue. Even if you are strong at level 2, if they are doing true damage and have a slow (significantly more valuable than 10% cdr) you almost have to auto-cede the scuttle anyway...

Please god don't let this go live.

hide haru4/27/2018, 8:35:08 PM106 votes

Wow looks like whoever gets the first scuttle wins the game. Meta basically going to be level 2 duelist junglers. I really dislike this change. This is definantly not the way to fix the jungle. Super coinflippy

Big Lincoln4/27/2018, 9:08:09 PM76 votes

obsession with path variation is getting annoying after the 3rd jungle rework around this idea

ZodiacSheep4/27/2018, 8:33:50 PM62 votes

The only comment I want to leave is that these scuttle changes will absolutely destroy Fiddlesticks. He's absolutely abysmal at taking scuttle and the time-honored tradition of "changing the jungle and accidentally making Fiddle unviable for a year or longer" is going to stay intact.

Buffÿ Summers4/27/2018, 8:22:36 PM61 votes

rip kindred yet again

Tsumugi Aoba4/27/2018, 8:29:17 PM58 votes

dont change the scuttle crab whats wrong with you

Pokemonred2004/27/2018, 8:20:43 PM55 votes

Not sure I really like the 'one scuttler per side of map change' at all. This reduces a lot of objective vision around the dragon and baron pits, which I only see as a bad thing.

Also, will the spawn times of the normal camps be going down? Because unless you have a lot of early game pressure, the long spawn times in the jungle mean there's nothing you can do should a gank fail. They're pretty ridiculous, and I feel like it's something that needs to be addressed if we're early jungle pressure.

GiornoˇGiovanna4/27/2018, 9:10:16 PM38 votes

Pls stop the RNG elements. Fighting for Scuttle Crab will be a really pain in the ass, making one jungler to be really behind in the game. Nobody wants to be useless just because skirmishers in the jungle. There are people who don't play early game junglers only. Junglers need to have same exp as laners, not less. Jungle role is to conrol the objectives, ganking, counterganking, being in the right place at the right time, good pathing, helping teammates, being able to balance between farming and ganking. ???? When you have a bad jungle matchup you should avoid enemy jungler and focus on farming and ganking, now it wont work I guess?

BadLuckBraìn4/27/2018, 9:00:52 PM38 votes

This means that jungler vs jungler on the first clear will be extremely important, early ganks will matter less. junglers good at dueling level 1-2 will be good, anything good at snowballing from that lead will be top tier (say hello to graves meta and kindred will be unplayable)

If this goes through as listed then early game jungle matchups will become a coinflip, which obviously is a very anti-fun thing to do

If you fight for the scuttle then you're adding a 50/50 smite contest 2 minutes into the game that will greatly impact the momentum of the game. And that's only 50/50 if your laners are out of the equation, if the enemy mid gets priority level one then why should i suffer as the jungler? That's not even a skill based outcome, this is literally just whichever mid+jungle has the best level 1 combo. You're deciding the pace and team advantage of the game from champ select which is a terrible thing to do to soloq

This also completely contradicts the changes you're making to mid lane!! You want to reduce waveclear in mid lane but this change fully emphasizes the necessity for mid priority since they are the only lane that will be able to consistently roam to the scuttle. Makes no sense at all I want to emphasize that there is nothing skill based about this. Please do not make jungle a coinflip

Ethical14/27/2018, 8:35:15 PM37 votes

Isn't this just going to really strongly favour junglers that duel particularly well at level 2? This is going to push hecarim even further into the dumpster :(

ThinWhiteDuke4/28/2018, 1:20:17 AM30 votes

Easily the worst jungle change in the history of league of legends

Cowsep4/28/2018, 3:18:30 AM30 votes

What about Junglers that have no CC to lower the resistance of the Scuttler? I absolutely hate taking the Scuttler early game as Yi and now hes ever harder.

On top of that the Jungle gives less exp? What about the spawn times, are they the same?

Novalas mentioned that there is room for counterplay with counterjungling if one jungler goes for the crab. What about if you're playing a champion with no point and click escape (Master Yi). You can't safely counter jungle people and if the enemy team collapses you're dead.

On top of that what about the fact that the person with the red buff will always be the one contesting the Scuttler?

Also someone mentioned that they dislike how junglers don't interact with players, why not open up options and see what players end up picking? If someone decides to power farm the other jungler can take advantage by ganking more often. If they both end up power farming at least the lanes can finally have that 1v1 situation they've been missing since Season 4.

Candoodle4/28/2018, 7:31:57 AM30 votes

why cant i downvote this thread

Primeunit4/28/2018, 1:19:05 AM27 votes

So basically Jungle is becoming a role that is even MORE reliant on their laners.

If the enemy laners have priority it won't even matter if I'm a stronger lvl 2 champion, or even if I'm the more skilled jungler for that matter, because going into such an obviously dangerous territory without priority(even with the current rift scuttlers) is risking a first blood. However, because of the exp nerfs in the jungle we won't be able to even contest the scuttler without strong laners. If we die early game and the enemy jungler decides(which they will 100% of the time if they are above gold) counterjungle, we will effecively have lost our "lane".

The only period in the game that junglers are stronger than laners is at lvl 3 in which they can apply pressure on the map, after that we already fall behind on exp and come mid game we have to start surrendering our camps to our laners. I'm really upset about these changes because all junglers are already reliant on their lanerscough adc, support, mid cough but will be even more reliant on them now. I don't like the way you all are saying that there will be "decently impactful jungle changes" instead of just saying that you're nerfing the whole role and all late game junglers especially. Also, what's to say that the meta doesn't shift to said laners just taking the scuttler for themselves? If its so strong and you already will make it to such a contested early game objective then it makes perfect sense for laners to also fight for it (push lane and then take scuttler). And if you are all just hoping that they care about the jungler then you're probably not playing the same game as me tbh.

I thought S7 was the worst season for jungle but this might actually take the cake... If you want to make jungle healthy define the role as a whole and see how the different champions function within the role. Are they doing more than they should(Warwick, Khazix, Xin Zhao, Evelynn, Jax)? What should they be doing and how can one put them in line with their intended purpose? Doing this will just change the current imbalances to another problem and it will undoubtedly be the biggest jungle problem yet. You seriously can't have the most impactful role(taking objectives and applying map pressure) into being the weakest role, it should be a favored role like Mid and Adc.

TRL Flawed4/27/2018, 9:17:06 PM27 votes

Not sure how this will make jungle feel any better. Im fine with needing 4 camps for level 3, but the RNG scuttle crap is awkward and powerfarming should be an option in the jungle. The problem is that junglers rarely have camps to farm and can just spam ganks because of that. If the camps would be less valuable, but on a lower CD, then junglers would have to choose between ganking and farming, instead of clear jungle. Spam ganks for 1-2 mins. Recall. Clear some camps. Spam ganks for some minutes again. Jungle feels really stale and not fun to play(even tho it got a bit more fun with carrys being a bit stronger). It feels like all the depth and skill of the jungle is slowly being removed and that it is being turned into a braindead, gank spam and now even somewhat RNG reliant role.

Subb in Alpha4/27/2018, 9:08:18 PM26 votes

Increase the number of jungle v. jungle interactions in the early game This point is already fixed, because of the insane respawntimers, you don´t have anything to do as a jungler if you can´t gank any lane. Invading is the only option, if not going afk, because the camps are NEVER up. You got that covered dw.

Vault Breaker4/28/2018, 1:12:29 AM26 votes

As a Vi main, but I can imagine a lot of other champions that don't do well before level 3 as well, I really dislike this change. Others have said it before me, champions like Warwick JarvanIV Trundle are going to 100% demolish you at scuttle in a level 2 fight. Killing krugs on Vi will take me ages so it's not a viable route. The scuttle crab giving this much experience and especially the fact there will only be one on the map at a time will most likely make the jungle matchup too snowbally.

I think a better option to reduce early game jungler pressure would be to just delay the first camp spawns by a few seconds, have junglers start without a leash because laners don't have any time to give one. Jungle clear will start later, and take longer.

ProvidenceNox4/27/2018, 9:07:42 PM25 votes

Maybe if camps respawned quicker junglers would have more to manage instead of being almost forced to gank lanes. Jungler already fall behind other roles in XP, they're going to become the new supports.

RobotEthanMars4/27/2018, 9:22:36 PM24 votes

(Stop removing the ability to prioritize gaining vision from the game. As a support player, removing Sightstone means I can't guarantee I get sufficient wards until after 15 minutes, in the case that I'm playing a Relic support, and my ADC doesn't let me last-hit, and the laners on my teams already didn't ward. Now junglers don't have an item that gives wards, and now have lost 1/2 of the monsters that grant vision. It's madness. This kind of awful design guarantees binary play, where lack of vision means either 100% passive play, or 100% active play, especially in the first 15 minutes of the game, when supports often won't have ward active.)

Never mind how this will eliminate non-early game junglers from the competitive pool AGAIN. If you can't get level 3 fast or win a duel at level 2, you're basically useless with this change. And you keep having to restructure the jungle because you made the buff camps be the center of jungle pathing by making them so strong, but you don't want them to be the center of pathing, and you can't figure out the really simple cause-and-effect that sets up. It's like when you made baron give extra stats, or dragon give a bunch of gold; players and teams will (generally) beeline to the most obvious, immediate bonus, and center their gameplay around that. You don't remove focus on buffs by removing another valuable monster: you weaken the buffs or bring them more in line with other camps in terms of XP, or make the XP less to make up for how valuable the buff is, so that junglers who are better against one monster at a time get buffs to help them clear easier, while junglers with better 1vX monster clear get more XP as a bonus, instead.

It feels like the people responsible for jungle changes over the 5 years I've been playing LoL are people who don't understand economics, specifically opportunity cost. Because, ultimately, that's what early game jungle pathing is. You weigh the possible actions you can take, and, ideally, act in the way that grants you the most possible power in that time, whether that's XP, gold, objectives, etc. The reason buff-camp-buff is prevalent is because 1. the efficiency of the route means the least time spent doing nothing on first clear, 2. lack of viable alternatives (specifically, lack of efficient secondary camps and lack of vision security around objectives making early dragons a coin flip(unless you pull bot lane, and lose them pressure/tower/gold and XP), especially after this change), and 3. Most junglers who are relevant in later stages of the game require buffs to clear early on, due to the way they scale, or they otherwise fall levels behind and instantly lose.

Changes like this one show that there is a clear lack of understanding as to the role of the jungle by the very people designing it.

Solari Fortune4/27/2018, 8:43:00 PM24 votes

I feel this will just force upon us early game junglers who will just kill the enemy jungle level 2 over scuttle and basically have jungle lead for most of the game

Zee Zone4/27/2018, 9:34:08 PM21 votes

This will kill Kindred for sure. You guys removed their sustain early and now this. Kindred will have to either forget about their marks for now on or guarantee giving up 1st blood. Look at it form the enemy's point of view, they're guaranteed the location and time of a squishy marksmen early. If that doesn't scream chaos and 1st blood i don't know what is.

Kindred will have to choose either giving up her 1st mark and being even more behind (they're already a squishy af marksman in the jgl. with no sustain) OR gather her whole team to help her out with the 1st mark which is pretty much nonexistent in solo... queue......

That's your plan isn't it... to hell with solo players and pushing everyone into the team oriented game play like you have always been doing...as a kindred player i feel betrayed. Focusing on LCS and team gameplay is one thing, forcing players into said way of gameplay by making said champion useless and easily counterable unless one play exactly by your rules is another thing, and a pretty fucking disgusting thing at that.

edit: I haven't played league in months now and was about to quit for good but the promise of mid season and the promise of balancing junglers and adc obnooxious power gave me hope, but THIS is what you have in mind?! Forcing an even more obnoxious early fighters meta where juglers with early damage will be the only ones viable making scaling junglers pretty useless. AT THIS POINT JUST DELETE HALF OF YOUR CHAMPS FROM THE GAME SINCE THEY*RE BASICALLY GARBAGE IN YOUR 20 MIN PER GAME META.

What about lowering the ammount of xp camps forcing junglers to farm more providing counter jungling and more interaction? At least this way if they gank early it's not a guaranteed kill. But let me GUESS, more farming = less ganking = less "action" in LCS

What's next? " since we've made bot lane more viable for other classes and not just adcs they are struggeling to find a lane thus we're buffing all of them to make them more viable"

You WON'T buff towers, WON'T decrease the damage overall across the board and now forcing a jungle playstyle that gives more action all in the name of entertaining the lcs with shorter more "action packed" games.

If this goes through and mid season doesn't drastically decrease the overall damage in this game it will be my, and many others, last straw.

Uber Dragon4/28/2018, 3:42:11 PM19 votes

Riot: "We don't want the jungle to be PVE" Then goes ahead and does the following

  • Removes vision and make paths less predictable, so yeah that will certainly help junglers battle each other
  • Makes junglers level so slowly that there's probably only like 3 champions in the game that will be able to gank at all
  • Makes the one scuttle on the map so essential that after losing it the best strategy will be avoid player interaction at all cost

Here's what's going to happen: Only a handful of junglers will be viable, consisting of super speedy clearers who also happen to have a good level 2. Interaction after the first scuttle will be lower than ever before. Jungle will feel even more lackluster compared to lanes, with probably only tanks feeling like they can get some of that lost game impact back later in the game, due to their inherent design.

Nice work. Definitely looking forwards to how you will fix this mess half a year later.

Bonus: Here's what you should be doing to get more interaction:

  • More ways to aggressively get intel on the enemy junglers position and camp spawns (could be vision)
  • Encourage lanes to leave their lanes earlier in the game to cooperate with their jungler
  • Try to give a more even playingfield for junglers (you seem to try to address some of that at least, hooray) including nerfing some ridiculous early level power house junglers and making camp clearing not so restrictive and biased toward a select few junglers (usually the ones who can clear raptors early, quickly and efficiently)
  • Generally even out the champion experience/levels so that for instance solo lanes aren't so much stronger than their underleveled counterparts, then rebalance individual champions again. (ie buff jungle and duo lane experience, then nerf the champions who were balanced around being behind in levels most of the times)
  • Give some good opportunities for teams to contest/pick up jungle objectives without the need to have a successful gank before (ie some opportunity to get a clear advantage when taking a dragon over an enemy team with the same amount of players around
Frickface4/28/2018, 1:04:20 AM19 votes

Please show that you're listening to your player base and don't go through with these changes. You've gotten constructive reasons not too, not to mention everyone is tired of relying on RNG elements, now show that you actually care what your players have to say.

FFv Potato4/28/2018, 1:06:28 AM19 votes

Scuttle crab = win. That's what will happen plus with the last jungle nerfs the jungler who doesn't get the scuttle gets permafucked by the other jungler since they're 1 level ahead. This will also open up a path for laners to absolutely focus on fucking the junglers up. IF these pathches gets into live I will have to take lane farm. BUT 8.9 the laners stay in lane more because of the mana changes. I do not fucking get why you have to fiddle with the damn jungle and have to constantly nerf it when there are champions in the mid lane that can just absolutely destroy the whole game. Why in the living hell do you have to make it ultra hard for people to jungle. As if we're not getting all the shit from these laners already. TRY GANKING A LANE THAT'S 1 LEVEL AHEAD OF YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS. I SWEAR YOUR "BALANCE TEAM" IS THE REASON WHY THIS GAME IS GARBAGE! You're getting paid for to balance the game. ACT LIKE IT! FIRE THAT WHOLE TEAM AND FIND PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME!

Tensaii Sakuragi4/28/2018, 3:02:49 AM19 votes

literally the whole community is crying this change as a toxic mechanic that will bully junglers out of the game . we will remember the names of Sotere and Nectar as the rioters who pushed a lot of jungler to quit the game.

Skourch4/27/2018, 9:03:50 PM16 votes

This is getting ridiculous. Remove tracker's knife, plans to change Kindred in some awful ways, and now shit jungle changes. Why do you want to fuck over junglers and especially Kindred players so much? Can't wait for RNG to decide my game rather than smart paths and ganks.

JGisLaneDiff4/27/2018, 11:04:12 PM16 votes

This change doesn't "Increase the number of jungle v. jungle interactions in the early game".

To start off, with rift scuttler being buffed heavily in terms of exp and gold it will mean that if you don't get it you will fall behind greatly. If two camps and rift scuttler give lvl 3 and 4 camps give lvl 3 then its worth roughly 2 camps of exp early game. I understand the intention of trying to make junglers have to duel each other more often, but this change will just make it so you are more reliant on your laners to fight over rift scuttler. If it spawns top side and your top/mid get shoved in early there is zero early interaction you are 100% forced to give away rift scuttler and fall behind greatly, vice versa for bot spawn. This just makes jungle more relient on laners for them to have early pressure. With this change instead of junglers ganking laners, laners can gank the jungler when they are taking rift scuttler lol.

This change also doesn't "Encourage variation in optimal pathing".

For the second point, if rift scuttler spawns topside and your laners have early shove, you will just start bot side buff into chickens into buff then go and take rift scuttler with your laners that have early shove. If the enemy jungler contests he dies because his laners don't have lane priority and can't roam. The enemy jungler can't take your jungle and counter jungle you since you took your camp on the opposite side of the map already. The enemy jungler gets fucked not because he pathed incorrectly, but because his LANERS don't have early lane priority.

Really bad change imo. If you want to stop junglers from ganking early make camps worth more so they have an incentive to farm instead of ganking lanes. Right now there is little incentive to farm your jungle if there is a gank opportunity because if the enemy jungle takes a camp from you, you don't fall behind.

So Riot nerfs how fast jungle camps spawn, makes them do more damage, and nerfs the gold and exp they give to stop junglers from farming and force them to gank. Now instead of lowering spawn time or buffing the exp and gold they give. Riot now wants to stop junglers from ganking, what are we suppose to do now? It's like you didn't think about laners at all and their impact on roaming to the rift scuttler when you made this change. I want the jungle to change, but this isn't the way to do that

What is the enemy jungle suppose to do here. [(https://i.imgur.com/YUaU4kW.png)]

Solari Fortune4/27/2018, 9:09:09 PM16 votes

If some junglers end up struggling with this all will they get some help?

Shadow Hazard4/27/2018, 8:33:15 PM15 votes

I see a few champs becoming an issue with this change. Nunu needs to be on the radar for this change. Kindred will become SIGNIFICANTLY more predictable in her pathing early game. Junglers that were already on the side of being strong gankers early will simply see this as a buff since they are already strong in skirmishes early that they will take the scuttle with no contesting if the enemy team didn't pick a strong early game jungler. Conversely the junglers that are on the weaker side early will be hit pretty hard by this. A personal sour point on this will be irelia who is already pathetic early even still with the changes on the PBE (i tested).

What is going to have to happen is that all the early game junglers will have to have their power trimmed (I'm guessing we will be seeing a bunch of base AD decreases most likely. Another thing that could be done to better equalize would be to have the sustain from the jungle items improve as the champs have more % missing health. The ones who were already strong early will see little to no change while the weaker ones will gain a slight boost without actually making direct kit changes to the too strong or too weak ones, and their clear speeds remain generally unchanged since the damage isn't going up or down.

For runic echoes I wish you gave more info on what is planned. My thought would be to make it more similar to ludens and offer cdr, even 10% would be nice since jungle mages all rely on spells. More spell uptime means better overall jungle performance for mages. The other though is to give it an effect of simply increased magic damage to monsters and make it a mini Death cap (less AP and less % AP increase) but with aether wisp move speed. It removes the possible future of having AP scaling tanks taking it and building into tank items while enjoying the extra burst from the proc. If you have another idea or ideas for the AP jungle item that the team is more set on we would like to hear.

Quality Content4/27/2018, 9:51:43 PM11 votes

What are junglers you expect to incorporate krugs into a level 3 clear? I can't think of many who'd want to fight them lvl 2.

Black T Poison4/28/2018, 12:09:41 AM10 votes

Jungle is so impactful early is becuase that’s when jungles can have any impact. The gold you get now from jungle is so little that you have no real way to scale into the late game. Just decrease jungle spawn timers and people won’t be ganking 24/7

Suburan4/27/2018, 9:50:20 PM3 votes

What are your thoughts on having it spawn top side first every game?

  • This will delay the jungler's first gank top as well as give your jungler a better chance of spotting the enemy's, relieving some gank pressure.

  • Bot-side jungle starts will no longer be de facto if the goal is to secure/contest the first scuttle

  • If scuttle spawns bot first, you can count on it impacting the bot lane meta. ADCs will fast push the first wave so they can secure that juicy crab for themselves.

Jesus is Savior4/27/2018, 8:48:07 PM3 votes

This is just going to make everyone start taking the unique path I've been taking all season: buff -> buff -> level 2 gank top/mid while the enemy jungler is busy hitting level 3.

I'm going to need a new unique strategy to avoid the enemy jungler now, because... Now there will be a greater than 1% chance of me crossing paths with him (more like 50% now).