TFT - New Item Distribution System

RiotRiot Mortdog·8/29/2019, 6:56:09 PM·1 votes·119,061 views

Hey folks, Mort here to talk about an exciting change coming to Teamfight Tactics. The item system is a key part of the game that creates a ton of cool decision points and exciting moments. But we’ve also heard your feedback that how we distribute items over the course of the game is not as good as it could be. In past communications we’ve been clear we’re not going to just give everyone the same amount of items as that leads to a flat and repetitive experience where you know exactly what to expect every game. We want there to be multiple paths to victory in TFT and one of the ways we want to do that is by keeping the item system variable. However, we’ve taken a look at how we can make improvements and have some exciting stuff coming to PBE.

What is changing?

First off, you'll notice that instead of just one type of box, there are now Common, Uncommon, and Shiny Rare boxes that can drop, each with their own distinct loot tables. Now when you get a higher quality box, you can get excited about what’s inside, and have a bit more expectations about what outcomes are possible.

Additionally, there are new drop possibilities. Items and gold can still drop just like before, but we’ve also added Champions and "Neeko's Help" (name pending). Champions that drop from the boxes will be added directly to your bench. (Note: If your bench is full, the units are just directly converted to gold instead. No tricky business with the bench and board!) We’re hoping that getting champs will pull you into unique build paths. And if not, you can simply sell them. Lastly, a new consumable item “Neeko’s Help” can also drop. This item allows you to make a 1* copy of any unit which then consumes the item. This should make your dreams of getting that 3* champion just a little easier.

Now I already know what you’re thinking. “This sounds like a bunch of RNG!” Well it is and it isn’t. Behind the scenes we’ve done a LOT to control how we distribute the boxes, as well as what’s inside the boxes. Our goal is that games have a lot of variation, but that they also have some degree of fairness to them. So the amount of boxes are much more controlled across the entire game. The difference between the best and worst cases is now much more narrow than before.

For example, on live after first three PVE rounds you can get 9 gold & 0 items, 3 gold & 1 item, all the way up to 6 items. It’s a pretty wide spread. In the new system, after the first three PVE rounds every player is guaranteed at least 2 Uncommon boxes, then 1-3 additional boxes. In addition, the total number of boxes and items across the entire game is much more controlled. If you start off slow, there are more boxes and items coming. We also prevent the most extreme and wacky cases (no gold boxes before stage 2-6, no more than 3 gold boxes per person max, etc). There are a ton of tuning levers and controls in here to try to keep things fair and competitive, while also being varied and exciting. This also makes it easier for us in the future to make adjustments if our first values aren’t correct.

Why is it changing?

Again, we think variety is important to the long term health of the game. One of the things that keeps Teamfight Tactics replayable is that every game is different and you experience new and exciting combinations. That being said, we need to achieve that goal in a way that feels fair and fun for everyone. We’re hoping this is a big step in that direction. With even more possible combinations, the variety should increase. But this way it’s more fair across the length of the game. No more 1 item 3 gold into 5 gold starts while your opponent has 6 items.

Now you may get 2 items, a Kennen, and a Neeko to start, while your opponent gets 3 items and 2 gold. There are lots of unique possibilities and you can use them to your advantage to succeed. An early 2 star Kennen could for sure outperform 1 more item. The possibilities and paths to victory should be numerous now. We think that’s better for the game, and frankly more fun!

This is also why we’re talking about it now. If you have a PBE account give it a try, then let us know what you think (I know it’s tempting to assume without trying it). If we're wrong, and it feels worse, then we won’t ship it. We’re committed to making TFT as fun and high quality as possible, and we think this does it, but we’re not too proud to admit if we’re wrong.

When do we expect the changes to go through?

If all goes well, and the change is feeling good, we’re hoping to ship it as part of our very large 9.18 patch. It will go out with the new item component, as well as some changes to the XP curve to make up for the slightly inflated rewards. This will be our biggest patch of the set, and should really shake things up for the better.

Again, looking forward to all your feedback, and I hope you keep enjoying TFT as much as I enjoy working on it.

https://i.imgur.com/uvpqAmu.png

50 Comments

Cräfty8/29/2019, 7:31:05 PM29 votes

Although I welcome your efforts to limit the influence of RNG on the items drop rate across the board, I need to say that TFT has a much larger problem that needs to be dealt with: Pathfinding.

  • Units, from when the game was still in PBE to this day, still go AFK randomly, costing us rounds, and even games!

  • Units, sometimes, don't follow the shortest path towards enemy units and get stuck in weird spots.

  • Units don't walk smoothly across the board. They move, hex by hex, stopping in each hex for a brief delay before continuing their movement, which cost us precious time during the fights, especially if the rest of the fight is happening on the other side of the board.

  • If the current target of my units die, while they were moving towards it, my units will stop, go AFK for a bit before resuming movement towards the nearest enemy available. This leads, in so many cases, to units going AFK permanently for the rest of the fight.

  • Shyvana's AI still sucks in patch 9.17. She still gets stuck mid transformation and goes AFK for a bit. This happens especially late game, when the board has too many units on it.

  • Brand's ability bounces more times than intended, on live servers right now, dealing too much unintended damage.

And a lot of other problems that need immediate attention to them. So, instead of using your time on new additions to the game - which are always appreciated but not now - maybe you should work on the more urgent issues in the game, first.

Imho, your priority should be to fix the AI of all the units, the pathfinding and the tracking of certain abilities (like Brand's ult). Movement should feel smoothe across the board, units should move and attack as they're supposed to and abilities should track units as they're supposed to, etc.

Trying to limit the RNG influence over the game is OK, but a lot of us have already adapted and learned to deal with it. The problems that I mentioned are much more game breaking and needs to be fixed ASAP before adding anything new to the game, since they constitute the core mechanics of TFT!

Flemman8/29/2019, 10:27:29 PM8 votes

Any chance for carrousel to be looked at too? This one doesn't need that many change, just some satisfaction improvement (mostly popping in the center when it's your time to pick instead of the ohter side of the map, giving each player unlock at that time the same chance to grab a champ)

ModThe Djinn8/29/2019, 7:02:37 PM7 votes

This sounds like a fantastic change, as you're able to give out more reliable drops to everyone (and drops are fun) without flooding everyone with items. Thanks for putting the time into this system, and I'm looking forward to messing around with it!

Out of curiosity -- if you open a box containing a champion with a full bench, does it simply open as gold or display the champion first? I'm hoping the former, as it would suck to see a champion you NEED pop up only to be converted to gold.

NotSoEvilDead8/29/2019, 8:54:54 PM4 votes

repeat after me: stop randomly deciding when to dispense items. What the items are can be RNG, but not whether or not you GET ITEMS. It's absurd and turns TFT from what should be a strategy game into a coin flipping simulator

adding more ways to get champions (in place of items no less) is ass backwards. Implement MTTH in the shop and none of this will be necessary

Gall8/29/2019, 7:32:22 PM3 votes

Question:

Will champions ever be removed or replaced in TFT, or will there be a continual addition of new champs to the game mode, which may cause an overload of options and more stress for newer players?

DiscworldDeath8/29/2019, 7:18:21 PM3 votes

So, when will TFT-only players be able to get onto the PBE, to actually try stuff, which you know, requires non-TFT Honor system progress.

TheRavenTFT8/30/2019, 5:11:50 PM3 votes

Again, we think variety is important to the long term health of the game. One of the things that keeps Teamfight Tactics replayable is that every game is different

It seems like you havent played the game the last 2 patches. And this patch its even worse.

Kei1438/30/2019, 4:21:09 PM2 votes

Can you make the items and boxes fly to the little league?

It's frustrating when you are banking to get that extra gold to get that 2☆ unit (or 2 1☆ units), have the box come out of the minion and go towards the opposite direction of where your little legend is, gold drops, I have to micro my way to get all the gold and then do my transcation in time while hoping that lag or a sticky mouse doesn't hit me and I can't do what I wanted.

Videlune8/30/2019, 3:34:44 AM2 votes

Call them Neeko Tails you guys. Neeko

Spice and Wolf8/29/2019, 7:04:12 PM2 votes

No more 1 item 3 gold into 5 gold starts while your opponent has 6 items.

Thanks a lot for this. It's really frustrating to get gold after first rounds

DoctorPelusa8/29/2019, 9:39:54 PM2 votes

Honestly, I don't think that the changes to item distribution will be sufficient to make up for the whole new line of items that's coming with this path.

Not to talk about the problem of adding new champions to the game, which is also increasing the RNG in champion selection as you still have to choose among 5, to the point where an extra space on the offers would be needed...

ImsoBadMain8/29/2019, 8:07:13 PM2 votes

Oh so your adding just more RNG

Mewtaph8/30/2019, 4:24:08 AM2 votes

My computer is on the lower specs of things so I end up being forced to skip the first carousel in over 98% of my TFT matches. While making all units in the first carousel 2-cost is a step in the right direction, there is still the problem of starting with the same item most games (the item I'm talking about it Negatron Cloak). While Negatron Cloak can make Bloodthirster, Dragon's Claw, Runaan's, etc., it is easily the most unsuitable starting item in the game which makes it frustrating to play with it several games in a row.

Dragon's Claw is more of a tech option against magic damage builds and isn't something you necessarily want to be building every game. Bloodthirster is only really suitable on certain champions/comps (Draven, Rengar), but you need attack speed to make those comps work (so people have an advantage in getting their bows and just making their BT later, if at all). A similar problem exists with Runaan's Hurricane, works better in tandem with attack speed items.

It feels bad when you end up running a Dragon's Claw or BT/Runaan's without AS items that don't really help you in any way to survive to midgame. It would appreciated if when selecting between the final two units that if there is a unit with a Negatron Cloak, the game will prefer to give you the unit with any other item and just Negatron Cloak to being attached to only 1 unit in the first carousel or maybe consider removing it entirely (for the first carousel only). I enjoy playing TFT especially at the beginning of new patch cycles but spamming the game mode tends to get less and less desirable as people play the same things over and over again near the end of a patch cycle, only made more frustrating having to start with a Negatron Cloak unit most games (starting with a 1-cost unit was thankfully also removed in this last patch). If this could be changed in some way it would be greatly appreciated, though I understand this isn't a high priority.

Tuyangtudai8/30/2019, 10:20:05 AM2 votes

i still dont understand how "evrey player gets same number of items" will lead to "flat and repetitive experience" yes u know that u get lets say 10 items there is still alot of RNG involved which 10 items u will get especially when adding more items to the game like with the "sparring gloves" so atm we have 9 basic items so odds to get the same items is already really slim in addition there is also champions to get again increasing number of champions reduces chance to get same setup.

J Epstein9/10/2019, 8:33:00 AM1 votes

This dumb. Just normalize the fucking items. Not hard.

Red Fr0st8/29/2019, 7:11:57 PM1 votes

When will it hit PBE?

Gall8/29/2019, 7:30:37 PM1 votes

This is an awesome change!

I already semi-like TFT and have gotten Plat 3 somehow even though I'm pretty garbage at the game. I don't care if I win or lose most of the time, but this will bring in more variety for gameplay to keep me coming back and make me less upset if I get some "bad" RNG that I enjoy blaming for my lack of skill X).

ezelsior8/29/2019, 8:38:52 PM1 votes

I love this change, nice going with the interest and continued support. I just wish summoners rift was treated the same.

Byakuya Ji8/29/2019, 9:04:29 PM1 votes

who the fuck are dango and fuwa? why them instead of the 14 canon SG familiars?

Dr Rick Report8/29/2019, 10:39:54 PM1 votes

Absolutely loving this change! My weeks of being a crybaby on every possible platform did pay off. Thank you to the entire team for considering this change!

KennKan8/30/2019, 2:54:30 AM1 votes

Thanks for making TFT amazing, I never comment but randomly thought of Neeko's Seed (sprouts into the unit you need) , you probably already thought of it though! I finally hit challenger woooo

PokeMyViJanna8/30/2019, 6:50:12 AM1 votes

Say, when are you guys going to implement in-game Item Sheet? That should have been the very first thing to implement in TFT. Most of the time, I don't even know what I'm going to build.

LRS Stalker8/30/2019, 11:25:56 AM1 votes

how bout fixing the balance first on 5v5 then messing around with your rng card game ? (when i say RNG i mean i played like 20 matches AND COULDNT EVEN MAKE A LVL3 champ.)when your opponent always start with 3-5 items before meeting me and i have 1 starting item and only lvl1 and max 1 lvl2 champ i think its scuffed.it doesnt matter if i play econ or any other strat. its just good old never get anything that would either suit the meta or my hand.

TheElegantRobot8/30/2019, 12:45:12 PM1 votes

Can you assure the community that you're balancing for win rates across possible drops (gold, champions, items)?

"Different paths to victory" is awesome. I don't mind at all getting gold and needing to win with that instead of items. What completely sucks is that some outcomes are obviously better (an order of magnitude?) than others - on live the gold rewards are paltry compared to item rewards and being hosed from the get-go feels bad.

Part of what I love about TFT is that in most games you have ideas of what you could have done better; but "5 items vs 9 items" with compensation of a small very amount of gold just feels like an auto-loss, which I think is sure to result in player attrition.

Raka Your World8/31/2019, 12:15:10 AM1 votes

Quit adding stuff to the game!!! AFK units are still an EVERY GAME thing! Why are you adding content, and tweaking drops, when my champs don't even fight? What part of that makes sense to ANYONE? Use your brain.

Win Zhao9/2/2019, 4:27:04 PM1 votes

Honestly, I will always feel like gold or getting champs is worse than items. There's only two ways to get items (carousel once every ~5 rounds and loot boxes), you can keep rolling for champs.

Let me give you an example of how valuable items are. Imagine they showed up in shop with a low chance, I would gladly pay 10 gold to buy a component. even 15 maybe for spatula. So getting anything BUT an item is a worse option

Win Zhao9/2/2019, 4:52:44 PM1 votes

Also - please give us proper reward for playing TFT. Make poros cost like 8000BE, and give us BE/game. it feels terrible to just get rewarded TFT-specific XP and emotes/icons (which are the stuff I recycle).

Haalele Kekahi9/10/2019, 12:08:01 AM1 votes

Cant you just take gold out of the drop pool completly? Like I might be wrong but im pretty sure no one wants gold instead of items like at all. When gold drop not a single person ever thinks sweet i needed that its always and i mena always dangit i wanted items.