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Wukong Prototype on PBE: Additional changes

RiotMeddler·5/21/2019, 1:26:06 PM·1 votes·151,308 views

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the feedback so far, especially those of you who’ve got games in on the PBE. Update to the Wukong changes on PBE below, these should be there sometime later today. A few reminders before we get to the changelist itself:

  • These changes will sit on PBE for a while (about 3 more weeks), then come off PBE. We’ll then make a call on whether to make the art for them or not. Means it’ll be a while until they’re live if we decided to go ahead with them.
  • Numbers here are still pretty approximate (they haven’t been through a serious balancing pass yet). Feedback on the general direction is helpful, especially what functionality a skill has. Things like comments on whether a 0.2 or a 0.3 ratio would be most appropriate aren’t helpful yet by contrast.
  • PBE is a messy environment, where many players don’t play seriously, we don’t have much match history to base matchmaking off, many people are playing with much more ping than normal etc. Feedback from it’s useful, but needs to be treated with a lot of caution when it comes to perception of power in particular.

Changes:

Passive

  • Damage amp no longer affects structures (was unintended that it ever did and Wukong’s pushing power's going up with new W a lot already).
  • Damage amp no longer increases true damage (never intended to, damage amps and damage reduction don't affect true damage).

Q

  • Q magic damage now has an AD ratio attached. Currently 0.2 bonus AD. Base damage is down from 20-100 to 20-80.
  • Q mana cost is 25-45 (was in the previous version too, forgot to include it in the notes however)
  • Now has the truly inspired name of ‘PLACEHOLDER NAME’. Looking for a replacement name here at some point.

W

  • Now casts in the direction of the cursor, rather than going off Wukong’s facing
  • Now goes through thin walls. Not sure this is the right call yet, wall crossing does mean he’s put one of his most potent tools on CD though and it’s thin walls only right now. Also allows for some nice mind games running at a wall and then hitting ‘S’ potentially.
  • Clone now gets the E Attack Speed buff if Wukong has it when he casts W
  • Clone now gets the Q on next hit buff if Wukong has it when he casts W

R

  • R CD now starts immediately so Presence of Mind works with it. Can still be cancelled by reactivating the R though. This is a change we’ll put into 9.11, since it’s a bug fix and low power impact, so doesn’t need to be balanced around.

Not changed:

A bug where Wukong can get stuck in the W spin animation occasionally until he casts W again. Would fix it before going live of course, isn’t severe enough to interfere with playtesting though so not spending the time on it right now. Hope you enjoy the ballerina impression in the meantime!

146 Comments

Wukong Airlines5/21/2019, 4:15:38 PM23 votes

Hey Meddler,

thanks again for the constant review of our feedback. After much testing with the new Kit, I find it promising and in the right path. But there's still something missing to make Wukong a better bruiser:

  1. He lacks CC. we all know any bruiser in order to function properly specially in this meta , they need CC, we dont need a hard one. Lets say we need a CC that will help Wukong to activate [Aftershock] pre-level 6, or in laning trades.

_Suggestion 1: _Landing the 2 ranged AAs (AA after [E] and after [W]) will mark the enemy/enemy champion, landing [Q] on them will stun/some sort of CC the enemy for small duration _Suggestion 2: _If wukong's clone AA enemy target 2 times, will mark the enemy and the next [Q] will stun the enemy for X duration.

  1. The [R] has to change. The damage is too slow, possibilities for [R] changes can be:
  • Ticking speed has to be increased
  • Over-all duration of the [R] has to be decreased
  • Type of damage to change over-time, or add a passive to it to unlock rewards after [for example: dealing damage for more than 2 seconds, it unlocks true damage/hybrid damage/slow the enemy, etc..]
  1. Most of other champions have reliable hybrid/true damage/Percentage damage I know the new passive adds "increased damage" and there is now [Magic damage on the Q], but I feel like wukong has lost a lot of damage after he lost the 30% armor shred, and since he's a AA reliant champ, he can be easily countered with Tabis. I feel the [R] could benefit from percentage/true damage since it's on a high CD so that Wukong doesnt abuse more than 2 types of damage pre-level 6.

Edit

Since we're trying to figure out a better name for [Q], I suggest:

The top's end/ top's end/ top's peak

Water Stealer5/21/2019, 1:29:23 PM7 votes

damage amps and damage reduction don't affect true damage

can you check this for aram? because i swear to christ vel'koz passive does less true damage than it's supposed to, along with cheap shot.

PowerOfDrainAge5/21/2019, 2:16:04 PM5 votes

With the changes on his Q, I think a CD reduction on it should be applied. To make it a bit like Jax's W (spammable)

BOSSKONG5/21/2019, 2:20:41 PM5 votes

when these changes gonna hit the pbe?

Tarcathos5/21/2019, 5:27:01 PM5 votes

Hello Meddler,

Just wanted to fire off two quick suggestions for Wukongs Q.

In martial arts, one of the first things most of them will try to teach is that your personal safety is paramount. Ergo, the first lesson is often, "Don't get hit." So, I would like to posit that Wukongs Q be called: First Lesson.

Another option, in many harsher disciplines, getting whacked (sometimes on the head) by the instructor is a common troupe. Most especially if you're not paying attention. So, perhaps when Wukong's "student" isn't paying proper attention he uses....Master's Reprimand.

Just some funny ones for your consideration.

Regards, Tarcathos

beany5/21/2019, 2:02:28 PM5 votes

When you say W casts in direction of cursor, does the clone face your cursor direction or the last direction before the cast? The former would be a dead giveaway of usage of W. I do think Q's name should use the name of the weapon itself, whatever name you decide to give it, since it's pretty iconic to Wukong's mythology.

Small Tiddies5/21/2019, 4:08:36 PM4 votes

This would actually be a decent rework if you made his Q scale to 40% at max rank. At the moment, this just futher pushes away AD wukong mains.

To clarify: His healing would be better suited to scale with less AD and add a small health scaling. So when you want to play Bruiser/Tankier builds, the heal is stronger. But, if you want to play AD builds, his Q would deal damage similar to how it is currently on live, at the cost of a little healing.

If you're taking away damage to put in healing, then building damage instead of health should reward you with more damage, and less healing.

A minior change to his E that would be great is if his E can't find more than 1 target, it would strike the same target multiple times (like yi's does now) with multiple hits dealing reduced damage.

Kadexe5/21/2019, 2:37:31 PM3 votes

Pretty good changes, especially to Placeholder Name.

BlaQ Goku5/21/2019, 2:57:12 PM3 votes

I'm liking these changes!

I have some feedback for the names of skills and passives. Some background... I LOVE the novel, Journey to the West. The reason Wukong is so popular in China is obviously because of this origin.

Wukong's staff, the Ruyi Jingu Bang (translated to compliant golden-hooped rod), can change in size, is immensely heavy, and crushes enemies like pancakes.

Due to this emphasis on Wukong's weapon, I feel it should keep its name somewhere in his kit.

Perhaps the Q could simply be called "Compliant Rod." It makes sense with the increased attack range passive, the staff growing in accordance to Wukong's command.

The passive could then focus on the fact that Wukong is a student of wuju. Something that shows that as Wukong fights an opponent, he learns more of their weaknesses (hence the damage amp).

"Crushing Blows" makes it seem like the enemy gets weaker with each attack, which isn't necessarily the case. Perhaps "Wuju Precision," or something similar to emphasize that Wukong is gaining this damage amp through his training with Yi.

Hidden Wisent5/21/2019, 2:22:31 PM3 votes

I've noticed that W clone is locked from attacking for the last 0.X sec, around the same time that the old spinning attack lasted. Is it intentional?

PowerHouseLegend5/21/2019, 4:16:30 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, was wondering if there are/were any different ideas for the passive effect on Q to test out since, while playing with the kit on PBE, I keep finding that the range effect is only noticeable and useful when using Q or W. Usually I'm already on top of the enemy when using E or R so I don't really use the range there.

Also cool idea, could you consider the E leaving behind two stationary Wu-Clones that attack enemies and like another player here posted, maybe give Q an ability CD reducing on-hit effect. I mean he is Yi's student and Yi has that auto-attack reduces your Q CD so maybe Wukong's abilities reduce others.

Thank you Agin for the Wu-work.

Spideraxe5/21/2019, 1:30:55 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler could I ask if you plan on changing the way Wukong dashes with E now that the other images can be targeted, in order to really confuse players as to who he is dashing to since I believe on live it always spawns one to the left and right of him

Nazoned5/21/2019, 8:44:36 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler,

I genuinely do like the direction these changes are going. Personally, I don't mind the damage drop off from his E to allow his clones to dish out more damage, especially now that those clones can have the increased attack speed from his E.

I was wondering though, to add to the "trickery" aspect of him, is it possible for the afterimages he creates from his E to last just a split-second longer (maybe around 0.5 seconds)? If those "clones" could just stand there without attacking anything and disappear, they could bait out any skill shots from the enemy in that short timeframe, or you could even press W right after using your E to have 3 clones that can soak up damage from enemies while Wukong himself is invisible.

Regards,

Nazoned

Death the Kidd5/22/2019, 2:09:13 AM3 votes

Thank you Meddler and the team for your hard work. For my suggestion, please consider adding some slight CC for Wukong. It’s good for him to lane at top or go jungle.

For the Q’s new name, my suggestion is “Wuju sth-“ like Wuju strike? since Wukong & Master Yi both have the Wuju power & I think that Wuju style is also a good topic to develope, like Darkin. I might ask a lot from you right now, but it’s just my thoughts and suggestion on the Wukong topic.

I have been playing Wukong since season 3 & a Wukong main myself so the rework process alone already made me happy.

Looking forward to hear more from you! Thank you again for dedication :)

Frontline Fury5/22/2019, 2:30:10 AM3 votes

How about having Wu's Q get a flat cooldown cut when striking champions, to encourage it's use in pvp rather than as a minion sustain tool? Provided his new Q still hits like the old one, how about "Wuju strike" to accentuate how it's mixing Wukong's brute force with Master Yi's refined training?

Burki5/22/2019, 4:19:30 PM3 votes

Hello everyone, MonkeyKing I'm going to focus on the mechanical aspect of things, because I have not played the games to say if his ratios or cooldowns are good or bad.

Q: When you animation-cancel the Q into E, you will not get the auto attack reset from the Q passive. That means doing a fast combo would require patience until the Q animation reached a certain point to then E --> AA with Q passive. The fact you need to wait feels bit klunky when you want to do a fast combo. Changing this would enable better fast trades early game against though laners (which we know Wukong got a lot of) but also require timing to do. You can also stack the passive faster that way or go for other Builds/Runes, like Press the Attack. Variety is fun. And if feels flashy.

summoner 4

W: We want this to be tricky, fun and useful right? And maybe even compensate some of the dmg nerfs to his E/Q.

1. Idea: When pressing S immediatly after the activation of your clone, the clone should not attack or move, untill you do an attack-move command again. At the current state he only cancels one auto attack but continues attacking afterwards. Having the possibility of the clone not attacking at all by command could be another option of fooling your opponent. And sometimes you just dont want him to attack to not give it away.

**2. Idea: **The clone could get the Q passive everytime you cast a spell while he's active. Not only does it look cool when you and your clone attack in the same style, it might get that one hit more in with extra range that could make the difference between kill or no kill. It would also make the clone actually more of a Clone/Copy. :-)

**E: **Not much to say here, other than what i mentioned in Q. Striking one enemy with all three clones because he is isolated could give a tiny slow without making him too strong I think.

R: Please, please give us the opportunity to use Tiamat during Cyclone. Garen can do it during his spin to win move (which was added long after the new Tiamat came out), and it's just a tiny dmg buff. And Wukong can use about every other item in the game during his Ult.

**Bug Report: **

  • W has a maximum range like Tibbers or Daisy and travels with you when you exceed it.
  • Stone skin seems to count Towers or structures as enemy. I got the passive without a champion nearby standing between the Nexus turrets.

As long as the clone doesn't give himself away from looking in cast Direction instead of last Direction before cast, this is all very cool mechanicially. Also, looking at it, loving and playing Wukong since release, I think the changes are overall nice and I love the work you put in. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

ThEdEathLyHaLloW6/26/2019, 4:46:10 PM2 votes

Will he be released this year or next year ? Cuz its getting stupid now. more than 3 weeks passed from this post and he is still not out and in that time mordekaiser was released in PBE and max a week after in the real servers , a new champ was released and now a new mode and wukong is still in PBE like wtf are u creating a God or something like that , that it takes u more than a month to do it . I mean morde had a full rework and it took u 5x less time than this rework ....

Phantomanium5/22/2019, 2:40:53 AM2 votes

would it be possible to explore a slight modification the crushing blows passive? for example the way it currently works is 4% extra damage per stack maxing out at 5 stacks resulting in a total of 20% extra damage. instead i suggest 5% extra damage at 4 stacks resulting in the same 20% extra damage but delivered in a way that works better with the new kit.

Cheesus Almighty5/22/2019, 1:07:31 PM2 votes

I'll have to try the new changes out for myself, but from trying the last pass of Wukong on the PBE, I feel defensively Wukong is in a great spot. He has good, unique tools to keep himself alive in a fight and get out of sticky situations. His lacking has always been his offensive tools, where on live he can build full damage and rely on the attack speed and armour shred to statcheck enemies grey in the face, but the new wukong lost that as well. I feel like if he wants improvements and changes, those would be the place to implement them.

BurnerTroll5/22/2019, 3:39:04 PM2 votes

First, I want to appreciate the effort behind this updates.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TL;DR: Wukong has reduced damage so he definitely needs the W updates at least.

There are 3 balancing points of Wukong:

+Damage +Defense +Mechanics (for jukes, for easy ganking etc.)

item 3078

Let's talk about new Wukong damage level. It is not broken and also lowered. He still has to wait until mid & late game to gain his power burst.

And the defenses, raw ones which come from his W and passive. Passive is not effective until 3 enemies around. Which makes him more susceptible at 1v1 and ganks (2v1).

Here is the main Wukong ID tool, juke potential mechanics. Currently he has an ability to place a clone with 1.5 seconds duration while he is invisible. Almost no damage, easy to distinguish if it is clone or not, and reveals the direction where you went. I personally wouldn't count this as a satisfying juke tool. Look at Shaco, Neeko or LeBlanc. They have more juke potential than this monkey.

I think the new W mechanics (including cursor following, passing through thin walls) are ABSOLUTELY needed if there will be no damage buffs for him. Keep it that way please.

To those who reproach about recent updates, saying he is broken now, he is not. He does almost no damage at early game so you can beat him.

With the wall update, we can use our valuable 1.5 secs of invisibility more efficiently. Remember, while ganking you had to press W and had to walk over some corners invisible. Sometimes the invisibility is out after you just reach to the corner.

I strongly advise to keep these changes so the Monkey King can go back to the jungle effectively.

Thank you for reading.

MonkeyKing MonkeyKing MonkeyKing

Win Zhao7/1/2019, 11:14:46 PM2 votes

can we push for wukong and malphite changes to go live? already been a month just being passed over, pls dont forget your main game. i thought tft team and qa team is separate so not sure why the delay...

painkills5/21/2019, 2:38:57 PM2 votes

Thanks for the update Meddler. The wall jumping is very interesting and the clone direction towards cursor is quite nice as well.

I can't help but notice that these changes are not very large. I had imagined more iteration, more versions being showcased and discussed.

For example, letting E drop "stand clones" (like live) or experimenting with W cooldowns / durations in order to address the increased "effective cooldown" of W at high CDR compared to live. Perhaps trying versions where Q does something other than heal (stuns after max crushing blow stacks or just slows?). Trying versions where W doesn't auto but the spin slows / knocks up / stuns? Trying versions where Wukong heals for damage taken / dealt by clone?

Would this mean that this general iteration / direction is more or less "the chosen one" or might we expect to see more differenter versions?

Duffers5/21/2019, 1:48:54 PM2 votes

Dynasty/Mortal or Wuju Strike/Smash or Blow combinations are some names I came up with for his Q in relation to his lore.

Any chance of his R having different knockup duration based on how close to the centre of him they are always annoying when people flash and are knocked up after they flash then get away due to it or perhaps a brief ground on his R after Wing to stop it happening.

TF Xeno5/24/2019, 10:36:55 AM2 votes

Hey Meddler,

An idea for the W: We should have the W act as if it is a Shaco clone to play with the tricky side of wukong. The benefit to this would allow for the clone to be more versatile and mobile vs. standing in one place (although with this method, it could be just that). Have the clone go point and click and not auto attack unless you click on an opponent after the clone is out (similar to other summons like tibbers or Shaco's Clone). This way, the Wukong clone we have now wouldn't randomly auto attack enemies that are nearby unpredictibly (or not even at all for some reason). The duration of the clone wouldn't change, but that would be one hell of a change that would definitely make me play Wukong more.

Much appreciated,

TF Xeno

Zide5/28/2019, 6:12:33 PM2 votes

As a Wukong main for the last 5 seasons, I feel indeed this rework/update is necessary. His kit needs character, some complexity to allow outplay potential and some identity. With the current changes on PBE (I’ve tried them out), I think the money has not gained much, but a bunch of of misc features that do not give him any particular style.

Passive: pairing the extra range after an ability with the increased resistances based on close enemies is far from being something uniquely interesting. Extra range does not synergize with both is E or R, and not even with his overall playstyle, as he’s a close range melee that needs to be close from his enemies to have success. The resistances are useful if we think of him as a teamfight engager, and thus i suggest something like this: different stacking bonuses based on how many opponents are on screen: 1 opponent = some lethality (allowing his assassin style); 2 opponents = previous lethality + slight tenacity; 3 or more = previous buffs plus increased resistances.

Q: I would love to see an increased range skillshot Wuju Strike, with small AOE radius, that slighly heals, shreds armor and grants vision of enemies from some seconds (allowing an E dash following it, which would be great for passing walls / jungling in general)

W: pretty much as is, but the close should still explode in the end, stunning close enemies for 0,5 secs (this will make enemies to think twice before chasing Wukong/clone, increasing the mind game potencial.

E: fine as is,

R: fine as is.

My two cents

Stealthy Monkey6/2/2019, 11:46:37 PM2 votes

Hi Meddler,

As a wukong main, It is my duty to give you something slightly different from the others comments :

It would be really interesting if the decoy was more "natural" when it's activated during fight. More precisely, when I starts an auto-attack with wukong and hit W during the AA, the decoy should finish the AA instead of cancel it. It will be very useful in lane to surprise the enemy efficiently.

Personal feeling : I am a top laner so I would like wukong get more resiliency to deals with some tanks.

Since I don't have access to the PBE unfortunately, that's it for me!

Btw I have watched some streamers and the "ballerina bug" is actually very funny! Keep it for a new dance or smth else maybe? :P

summoner 4

Wukοng6/13/2019, 11:34:14 PM2 votes

All these complete Champion reworks coming to the live server while Wukong's small rework is still being hesitated on. ZzZzZzZzZz