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Runes Corner: More Precision Runes

RiotRiot Reinboom··1 votes·75,027 views

Hello! Welcome to this week's Rune Corner!

I'm Riot Reinboom, a Tech Game Designer on Runes Reforged. Today, I'm bring you a glimpse into the legendary Precision style.

WIP DISCLAIMER: Runes are in active development. This means that names, numbers, icons, game rules, or pretty much anything you can see can change before release. Of course, if there’s anything that you really like in particular make sure to call it out.

Today I'll be showing you the entirety of a Precision regular Runes slot, the "Legend" slot. To start here's Legend: Alacrity:

 Legend: Alacrity
http://i.imgur.com/bSZbBRv.pngGain 5% attack speed plus an additional 3% for every Legend stack (max 5).
 
Gain Legend stacks for every 30 points earned:
20 points for champion takedowns
20 points for epic monster takedowns
4 points for large monster kills
1 points for minion kills

All 3 runes in this slot share two qualities: Contrasting to many of the recent reveals, these runes offer a relatively straightforward stat. The legend mechanic.

Even within the context of stats, nuanced and interesting decisions can be made that drive two playstyles apart. Even in the old runes system, Quintessences showed some of this. The difference in a Jinx taking a bit of extra Attack Speed to harass more regularly or taking a bit more Life Steal to carry her into the mid game reveals two very different types of Jinx play. But not all stats carry this same level of contrast. There is a subtle difference for a Jinx when it comes to Lethality versus Attack Damage runes, but for most players these two just play out as a very subtle math optimization game, and most players will let a guide get them through.

For Runes Reforged, we want to capture the interesting stat decisions here without the ones that are more prone to being math problems. So, Attack Speed and Life Steal are good starts:

 Legend: Bloodline
http://i.imgur.com/nmw8wyf.pngGain 1% life steal for every Legend stack (max 5).

But what's with that Legend mechanic?

One of the largest issues we face with stats is what happens you start the game with a lot of it. Too much early Life Steal can make a lane drag on forever. Too little and it's just not very effective by the time mid game rolls around. Attack Speed can define jungle clear speeds, which means we could never offer enough to make it exciting elsewhere without making it mandatory for junglers.

Legend is our take on making these decisions fully enabled by mid game, while having relevance throughout most of laning phase. At the same time, they also offer a way to show off your strengths over your opponent and get rewarded for it, speaking to the skillful and precise play the Precision path highlights. And of course, by slowing opening them up, we give a chance for laners to adapt to some stats that would otherwise be a bit more hard countery.

 Legend: Tenacity
http://i.imgur.com/MBUHMr9.pngGain 3% tenacity plus an additional 5% for every Legend stack (max 5).

We'll be hanging out in the comments section for a while to answer questions. :)


You can check the previous Runes Corner posts here: Runes Corner: Runes Content Development Peek Runes Corner: Meteor Sneak Peek Runes Corner: Hunt of the Bloodmoon Sneak Peek Runes Corner: Domination Major Slot Sneak Peek Runes Corner: Stormlord's Mandate and Spellslinger's Surge Runes Corner: Guardian Soul Runes Corner: Summoner Specialist and Hextech Freezeray Runes Corner: Late-Game Focused Runes

212 Comments

ModCaptainMårvelous23 votes

Gain 3% tenacity plus an additional 5% for every Legend stack (max 5).

That's nice. Except it still does nothing against the massive amount of displacements in league. An average team comp these days has far more displacements and slows than hard CC in the form of stuns/snares/roots.

Until tenacity does something with displacements, it's going to be a pretty bad stat.

King of Demons3 votes

{quoted}

That's nice. Except it still does nothing against the massive amount of displacements in league. An average team comp these days has far more displacements and slows than hard CC in the form of stuns/snares/roots.

Until tenacity does something with displacements, it's going to be a pretty bad stat.

In that case you acn just take something else

Tenacity has always been best against shorter duration CCs. I could see this being used against a Syndra in mid for example, because a max range stun means you can actually run out of her range most likely before she can unload. That's nice. If you face a Morg and you want to reduce her long duration snare you're doing it wrong.

Tanks will love this regardless

ModCaptainMårvelous8 votes

And you know what's the shortest duration CCs? Hint: Displacement. That think tenacity doesn't do shit against. Even if your argument was true, Tenacity has not "always been best against shorter duration CC". Tenacity was the counter to long CC that used to exist in a large amount on teams carrying five 2-3 second fears/taunts/etc.. Reducing a 3 second stun to 2 seconds if far more impacting than reducing a 1 second root to 0.66 second rooting. Reducing a tiny stun barely matters because chances are if you got hit, you're probably already dead or about to be.

Tanks don't care about CC. Tanks are designed to soak CC. They don't care about tenacity because if you're CCIng a tank, you're doing it wrong. You know who DOES care about CC? Melee champions who are bruisers and/or carries. They're the ones hurt the most by CC. This doesn't do anything against the Vayne who knocks you back and pushes you further away.

Tanks don't need this. Bruisers/Assassins/etc. need a tool to deal with this ranged, uncounterable CC insanity. Not more of a state that does piddly.

Eddard Sheeran5 votes

If you're CC'd, you're not doing anything. Which means you can't disrupt. Some tanks are meant to soak cc and peel, some are meant to disrupt carries. If you're trying to disrupt a vayne, you can't do it stuck against a wall. Tenacity is a great pick into non displacement CC, and while there are many knockups, champs with stuns/snares/slows are still picked.

This time also highlights the beauty of being able to pick runes in champ select. Enemy team is all knockups? don't take the tenacity rune. Enemy team has morg, Annie, ashe, and irelia? Yeah you need all the tenacity you can get.

Not to mention that this is another unique source of tenacity, which is huge. Coupled with merc treads, you can get a pretty high %age and kind of build a tenacity path against certain comps. I think its an interesting choice (if they stack, and if there's no cap?).

JMoormann7 votes

Disagree. 28% from all stuns, slows, roots etc. is quite a lot. That's an entire second from Ashe ult, almost a second from Morg's root, 1.5 seconds from Nasus W, etc. With the current numbers I feel like it's the strongest of the 3

Rathar Dashing9 votes

28% Tenacity

uwu onii chan7 votes

Can you make a rune that is able to give you an extra slot where you can put a control ward? It sucks that you have completed items and can't buy control wards for extra vision.

jwebb01136 votes

just a random question...

have the people at RIOT considered balancing the items and champs , game around not having runes at all ?

cuz this new rune system just seems so gimmicky

people will still find the most optimal build/rune set up for each champ or class of champs and stick to those just as they do with the new system.

ModWulf Helhammer12 votes

That would make it so that there's basically no difference between you playing a champion and anyone else. Item builds largely are the same in every game, except for maybe one or two situational items.

And the whole point of these runes is to offer different playstyles. So yes, there may be one setup that gives the most damage, but then it lacks any kind of defense or utility.

jwebb01131 votes

yet that is what the rune system does now...

damage dealers take more damage related runes

non damage dealers take more defensive stats

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

Because the current rune system doesn't have the ability to support differing playstyles. Sure, you have some (such as going Warlord's for sustain or Fervor for damage, Courage for tankiness or Grasp for dueling), but you still can't really fine tune your playstyle in any meaningful way.

jwebb01131 votes

well if i wanted to play full ap maokai ... i can go magic pen , ap , with cdr

and go full offensive masteries

and build him full ap

i lose out on tank stats. i lose out on sustain etc but i can do a lot of damage

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

....Ok?

Your point is....?

Atanchan6 votes

I mean, that's not quite true, they could drop all sort of pre-game everything and just rework every item so that you have far more situational items and less of your item slots are dedicated to core items, but I think just saying that explains how much work that'd be.

Not to mention, the importance of pre-game is a pretty defining feature of League when you compare it to other MOBAs, so.

RiotSparkle12 votes

This is a good question and your answer here touches some of our thinking.

From a design perspective, we do find value in having a distinct pregame space where we ask you to make decisions about how you want to play or how you think you'll play. We call these "predictive" decisions and many of the new runes touch on that space. A lot of that is where the "playstyle" questions about how you want to play vs. other people come into play - I want to play Morgana support instead of mid and I focus on the shield vs. the pool, etc.

Many items ask you to make "reactive" decisions instead, asking you what you'd like to do based on the state of the game - they have a fed Tristana so I will buy a Thornmail, etc. Not that all items are reactive, something like Dark Seal would be considered predictive as well for example. Items are a great point of mastery in this case - learning and adapting item builds are one of the ways you can get better at mastering League (runes too we hope!)

Basically, we think both types of decision making are valuable and fun for players (and good for the game!), but they're slightly different kinds of decisions.

ModThe Djinn6 votes

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you opted to make Bloodline provide Lifesteal instead of something like flat healing? I mainly ask because the percentage is small for a stat that isn't super noticeable in small quantities (5% lifesteal compared to, say, the 20% attack speed or 28% tenacity the others can give) and it's tied to a state that requires serious AD investment to see a benefit from.

I get the inherent power in Lifesteal, but I can't help but wonder if a flat value (or even a larger flat value that procs every X attacks or so) would make this rune more appealing (and more noticeable) on more characters.

Report for Wuju5 votes

Will spellvamp still be an option ? Or do you completely remove it with this preseason ?

RiotRiot Reinboom29 votes

We're currently not offering Spell Vamp exactly. We do have an rune that offers "omnivamp" (like Gunblade).

Rathar Dashing25 votes

We do have an rune

Galiö5 votes

More stacking stuff... i dont like... i found nasus and veigar champs that are obnoxious just for potential. And now anyone who takes this can be annoying. Except attack speed is capped

Nevermind misread. Didnt see cap. Im moving on now lol

Rathar Dashing12 votes

They're all capped. You can only get 5 stacks total.

RiotRiot Reinboom19 votes

All 3 of them are capped, so they don't stack in the same way that Nasus and Veigar do.

The stacking element tends to end as laning phase ends, and even when the stacking does continue it tends to not be very long after. So you don't have to worry about the continuous Nasus / Veigar style laning.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Well, except for supports. A support would need to get 8 assists/epic monster takedowns in order to max their stacks. I don't see that happening before lane phase ends unless bot was a total bloodbath.

Baller2603 votes

I'm guessing this is more of an ADC rune rather than for supports.

The Yetii Rider4 votes

Alistar Braum Ivern Leona TahmKench Taric Thresh Blitzcrank would love 28% tenacity. Tenacity isn't an ADC rune.

Rathar Dashing5 votes

Don't forget DrMundo

WiccanBKaplan9 votes

But why would you take this on supp when you could take anything else?

RiotSparkle7 votes

I mean you could take it on certain supports if you were betting on bot lane being a total bloodbath. Maybe you're running a funky kill lane with like MF/Lucian (or an old fashioned kill lane with Xin/Jarvan).

But yeah, generally supports also do have other options in other Paths

Malicious Metal6 votes

Kill lanes and no mention of good ol' Mordekaiser Blitzcrank ? I'm disappointed.

Ahristocats5 votes

IMO legend:bloodline should give omnivamp instead of lifesteal

RiotRiot Reinboom15 votes

Precision is the attack centric path. There is a rune in another path that offers omnivamp.

Wolfeur5 votes

As a support Vanguard/Warden lover, I'm a bit concerned about this potential 28% tenacity. My old main Leona is already not really well in the meta and I fear this will kill her.

Electro5226 votes

You have to remember that we have no clue what the meta will be like come preseason. Your Leona could be a step above God tier, be absolute trash, or somewhere in between. This is true for any champion.

We simply don't know.

Yandere Yandere6 votes

If it's the Attack based path why does it offer Tenacity? That would fit better in the Tank/Defense Path. Maybe change it with Crit or AD? Then we enable the 3 main choices (DPS, Sustain, Burst) for ADC's.

Is this also the "main" Path for Assassins? Haven't really seen Pen/Lethality related runes or some cool minigame with a Kill as reward.

Electro5224 votes

You forget that there are some fighters who would love both attack speed and tenacity. Irelia and Yasuo are the best 2 I can think of, and maybe Trynd and Jax as well.

Yes, ADCs are properly going to use this path the most, but it isn't going to be just for them.

Also remember that these are not keystone runes, meaning you can take these in your secondary path.

xDrewGaming2 votes

This tenacity and attack speed will for sure be busted on Udyr IMO

Aldwyn475 votes

Hello,

I'm a EUW player who has been active for a long time (ever since S3). Competitively speaking I peaked at Diamond III during seasons 4 through 7. I'm writing this post because I wish to contribute with my own general feedback on both the new Runes System as a whole and on each individual rune revealed so far in order to provide constructive input to help future balancing. I apologize in advance because this is gonna be a very long post: it would have actually been a lot better if I had taken the time to review each one of the new Runes as they got progressively revealed but since I didn't bother doing so earlier I'm now left with no choice but to make one single giant post about them all. I also failed to find a general thread that would be fit for my post so I thought the best way to make sure Riot would notice it was to simply add it as a reply below the newest revealed set of Runes. I would also like to add that I'm perfectly aware the numbers are totally temporary and will likely change before the release of the new system. Nevertheless, I will still reference them a lot in order to give clues as to whether in my opinion a certain rune is looking potentially too strong or too weak. Below follows my own personal review of each rune revealed so far, let me know if my feedback can be of any help.

BERSERK: I find this to be too strong. A 60% attack speed steroid that lasts up to 10 seconds is simply too much. None of the other offense oriented Keystones provide a damage boost that is even remotey comparable to this one, let alone those have significant cooldowns too (i.e. 50 seconds for Stormlord Mandate, 180 for Hunt of the blood moon). This rune needs to be either toned down or have a significant cooldown added to it (except at that point it would feel very uncomfortable to use as it would randomly trigger even when you don't want it to). Either way, upon triggering this Rune still grants an Attack Speed bonus worth 1500 gold which is why I would simply suggest tuning its numbers down. A lot. I otherwise like the presence of a tool that allows players to invest and capitalize in sustained damage (whereas Stormlord Mandate and Hunt of the blood moon are the burst damage related alternatives).

PERXIE: The Keystone's mechanic implies it's pretty much for enchanters only. I think it's somewhat ok but at the same time kind of mediocre: what I dislike the most is that enchanters focused heavily on defense (Janna/Soraka) will make little use of the damage component of this Keystone (since damage is kind of useless on them anyway), whereas those that can exploit both effects (Lulu, Nami, others) are gonna be penalized by Perxie's internal cooldown (Nami's W can either give a bonus shield or extra damage but not both things). The rune's cooldown will in my opinion ultimately dictate how satisfying this Keystone feels to use (I will admit I haven't pictured clearly enough Perxie's return pattern just yet).

OVERHEAL: I feel this rune is a bit wasted for a Major slot because few champions can consistently use it unless it works with regular HP regen as well. Even if I have Soraka on my team I'd be forced to constantly roam to bot lane to receive my shield, not to mention since the shield scales off my total HP it becomes worth picking only if I'm a tank. I feel a few champions such as Vladimir and Mundo are gonna capitalize a lot on it while most champions shouldn't even remotely consider picking it, which feels kinda unfair and unhealthy design wise. My suggestion would be to downgrade it from Major slot and tune it down a little bit in return.

ZOMBIE WARD: The concept behind this rune is very interesting but the fact the Zombie ward is visible kinda ruins it: as a support main myself I can tell a support that is losing will make little use of this Rune because the lack of map control implies the enemy team will likely spot and kill the visible ward very soon. On the other hand, a support that is already winning usually has no problem keeping vision control around the enemy rotations with the three regular wards he gets from sightstone because of the limited area of influence the enemy has left. Either that, or what he may otherwise want is to buy pink wards to set up picks. In general I feel the only time this Rune can be useful is when map control is kind of even, which also implies Junlgers are likely better candidates to capitalize on it rather than supports (using the Red sweeper and the Scrying bloom for vision control in the early game). Once again, what I dislike the most is the "Major" status of this Rune as I fear players may not pick it because doing so would prevent them from accessing more powerful alternatives.

OVERCHARGER: Nothing wrong with this one, 10% CDR is quite powerful but the rune has a scaling component that accounts for that. I also like the bonus quality of life buff that allows people to overcap CDR without suffering negative consequences. Most champions would make good use of it, which makes it a healthy alternative ultimately picked according to playing style and personal preferences rather than whether a champion can make good use of it or not. Fully stacked, this Rune has a gold value of only 247g (excluding the overcap bonus) but the fact CDR is too hard to access for some champions and too easy to access for others kinda makes up for it.

ESSENCE THIEF: The concept is really cool but the rune needs absolutely a Max HP cap. Farm oriented champions like to spend a lot of time either laning or pushing side lanes, meaning they will easily be able to stack up to 300 HP by the 30 minute mark. Given Strength of the Ages was removed for its sheer power as it forced people to pick it simply to make up for the fact the enemy jungler was picking it first, I would suggest adding a Max HP cap set at something like 200 HP to prevent people from growing too strong in the long run and make other players feel a bit better upon opting for something else. Either that or upgrade the Rune to Major to allow access only to those willing to make a serious investment in sturdiness. This Rune has a gold value of 267g for each 100 HP stacked, with virtually no limit to it.

DON'T PANIC: Not much to say about this one, in general it's just a slightly weaker version of an already tested Keystone Mastery (Windspeaker's blessing). The power reduction accounts for the minor status compared to the Keystone status of windspeaker, meaning the rune should be pretty balanced. I like the fact it allows players to invest in expressing a specific aspect of their gameplay pattern (in this case healing allies), I don't like the fact only enchanters/healers would consider picking this Rune. But then again, not everyone needs to like every rune as long as each individual champion finds enticing a significant amount of them (ensuring they always have a wide spectrum of choices to customize their playing style).

PANIC: In theory the Rune could have some very interesting uses on champions such as Tahm Kench but as long as you're forced to choose between Essence Thief or this one I don't feel this one is ever gonna see much use. Nothing wrong with the concept though, it provides benefits that are difficult to obtain with other means and that really shine in some very particular situations, effectively rewarding a very specific gameplay choice.

BLOODLUST: I don't feel very excited about this Rune because the moments its effects become tangible are very limited. Even right now whenever I find myself picking the Dangerous Game mastery I get the clear feeling I'm investing in a mediocre tool that will repay itself only at limited times whereas something like Don't Panic/Windspeaker allows for a more broadly and consistently impactful expression of my gameplan. Then again, I never played any of the reset oriented champions that would benefit the most from this rune (such as Katarina or Akali) so my judgement is probably biased. I feel few champions would really feel significantly happy picking this mastery but since it's a minor one I can close an eye on that. Some tanks would possibly feel good about it too (thinking again about Vlad and Mundo).

RUINED KING'S TRIBUTE: Aside from the scaling component added to the healing this is pretty much exactly like the Grasp of the undying Keystone. Balance wise this is obviously ok when we consider the single Rune itself because the Keystone already exists and doesn't create problems in its current state. Speaking more generally though, if the idea is to keep the Keystones' power level around the one they currently have, then there are definitely some anomalies to look at (i.e. Berserk being too strong, Stormlord Mandate possibly too weak).

PERFECTIONIST: I don't like this Rune at all because I feel it conceptually contradicts itself. It provides a boost in early game firepower that rewards the most those who want to trade actively and bully their opponent, however a heavy trading pattern implies more often than not trading some of your own HP and dropping below the 80% threshold as a result. Once again I feel only champions that rely heavily on self-sustain could make good use of this Rune, not to mention that while the rune itself has a gold value of 420-490, AP and AD are generally stats that are relatively easy to access even on first back, effectively making this Rune not enticing given how the new system will allow players to have only six Runes in total. At the very least I think the threshold should be lowered to 50% to allow the lane bullies who may want to pick this Rune the room for more risky plays.

(Part 1 of 3, continues...)

Shinimasen3 votes

@RiotReinboom Hi!

Great work, one of my concerns is, all of this "stack" mechanics are actually displayed in-game? So you can keep those on check during the game or not? In the actual system many "stacking" effect aren't displayed during the game for "declutter the UI" BUT this is a big key factor for understand "how many stats" i have during the game and when i hit my "objective" and have a clear vision on my strenght.

I hope you will dedicate a Dev Corner for show us the UI work on the new Runes system because in many iteration of new systems Riot "forget" how much the UI experience is relevant for the players.

Thanks for the reply :D

RiotRiot Reinboom7 votes

There will be a way to track your stacks in game, as well as track many other Runes specific things.

Hungry Cancer2 votes

Will there be a way to check the rune's progress on enemies? or to see what runes enemies have equipped because some of these non-keystone runes are pretty significant and knowing about them will make a big difference, especially that tenacity rune, channel blink, and ultimore.

Dope Solo3 votes

Cool story. How long before you fix Yasuo ? Weeks not months? Months not years?

Ryusaether4 votes

Is this a copypaste? It's in every Dev corner, dunno if it's always you but it's really annoying

Dope Solo1 votes

Not a copypaste, but I'm still looking for an answer to the question.

RiotSparkle7 votes

Real talk dude, you're not going to get it from the team that works on Runes. I have no idea.

I can answer Runes things, but asking this on every Dev corner is not more likely to get you an answer. Rioters are very unlikely to be able to answer Qs about things they don't work on.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

Any plan for lethality runes ?

Spideraxe2 votes

Very interesting runes Reinboom, will we see any ranged/melee differences that have historically been applied to sustain stuff

RiotRiot Reinboom10 votes

We don't like to do ranged/melee split unless it shows as necessary, and we haven't hit that point in tuning yet.

LyingOnLine8 votes

It's going to show as necessary, and you know it.

In the meantime, 5% lifesteal (midgame) is so worthless as a stat that the rune might as well not exist.

Do like the fact that you have a tenacity rune for it, though. That's the kind of thing I like to see.

WoonStruck2 votes

A tenacity rune in the precision path...meaning anyone that COULD use it won't use it.

Over 2/3 of the people that would want it won't be going precision.

Zkaiser5 votes

Not as a main path but these aren't Keystones so you can take them on your secondary path.

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