[DISCUSSION] What would you like to hear in the Dev Corner?

RiotPWYFF·11/24/2015, 9:41:33 PM·1 votes·12,265 views

Hi friends,

Thanksgiving's coming up, so we'll be taking a small break this week, but I wanted to get a discussion in about what sorts of content you'd like to see here.

I'm going to update that sticky at the top of the dev corner forums, but the TL;DR of the Dev Corner is: We want to build a sustainable channel of casual communication between Riot developers and the community.

We've got some ideas (pretty much full out to the Christmas break) that I'll get to in a moment, but I also wanted to hear from y'all. What's interesting to you? What would you like to hear about on a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly basis?

Over the next few weeks to Christmas, we're going to be introducing key designers and design leads on here - the intention being that they're all going to start up informal monthly dev blogs on key topics of interest (ie: Champion Balance with Jag). I'd love for you to keep your eyes peeled to throw in any other suggestions for topics you'd like to hear from them.

I'll stick around all day to talk.

62 Comments

Malicious Metal11/24/2015, 9:47:34 PM19 votes

One thing I would like are extensive discussions for champions that don't really fit into the game due to their kits being either too hard to balance/messy or unhealthy for them to be strong. Discussing core aspects that make the characters who they are and get input from their player base would prevent outrages like Cassiopeia or Mordekaiser...

Speaking of which, I personally would love to have some discussion going for Mordie.

Keevalroy11/24/2015, 10:12:22 PM6 votes

Healthy and unhealthy champion designs.

I want to hear about reactions to champions being made that Riot is happy with or proud of compared to others which cause an "oh dear god what have we done?" reaction and why, in addition to comparing your reactions to community response to them. Preferably about the new(ish) releases since we already know how you all feel about older champions (i.e. Yorick being taken off of the free rotation.)

Stars Shaper11/24/2015, 10:31:55 PM6 votes
  • The Mordekaiser plans you promised to show last week.
  • Something about the Immobile Mages work in progres.
  • State of Taric rework.
Kürama11/24/2015, 10:02:02 PM5 votes

I'd love to hear about plans for alternate maps, even if they're small improvements.

Drunk Tsundere11/24/2015, 9:45:56 PM5 votes

We would like to know what you are working on :D

We don't care if it's been scrapped, or never will happen. I get that a big reason you don't do this is because often ideas get iceboxed or thrown away and you don't want to make promises that you can't keep, but just inform us to not get our hopes up and we will understand and not take it to heart <3.

I love hearing silly stories or scrapped ideas from development. Imagining the different directions a champion or skin could have gone is always fun.

UTIDAWA11/24/2015, 11:13:49 PM5 votes

I'd like to see some more discussion on Mordekaiser like what was planned last week.

Mordepool11/24/2015, 11:17:33 PM4 votes

I Would like to see that Mordekaiser Rework mega thread that was promised

Reviewing the rework day 1 and having a discussion on what worked and what didn't and then a community driven plan for his future.

I apologize that my belief is: number tweaks won't fix his kit/ place in the game.

Adding in an anti dash mechanic would restore my faith in riot.

S H A Y C 011/24/2015, 9:48:29 PM4 votes

For starters, I would like to know what is getting patched in the incrimental patches that happen randomly. I have to download 300+mb and accept yet another eula with no explanation whatsoever. So hotfix notes would be wonderful.

Also some sort of list of every current project that is underway. Progress updates would be great, but a simple list would suffice. It could possibly curb some of the "rito please" in the community if we knew you were working on it already.

Earl Eulrich11/24/2015, 10:09:52 PM4 votes

well...

#1 Dominion and TTT - still deserving of some love, even if you won´t be willing to fully commit to it (at least a draftmode for dom shouldn´t be that hard to implement). #2 Item/Buildpath-diversity - still not going anywhere, before the rework i have played half of the ADCs as AD-Casters happily, now the option is gone and i just feel forced to go the most efficient crit-build every damn time #3 RNG, still there, still deceiding games at times more than skill

Raz al Ghul11/25/2015, 12:38:27 AM4 votes

This might not directly be development related, but kind of. What sort of more in depth statistics are used for balancing? I'm thinking along the lines of things like, how do you balance across skill levels for champs that are heavily gold/item dependent (do lower elos play poorly with some champs because they can't get the items until 40 minutes in kind of thing, or are they actually equal due to way more kills at lower elos)? What proxies do you use to determine if a champion is balanced? This might relate more to development: is there a standard champion for each role to balance around when developing new champions or reworks, kind of like the Renekton bar that was referenced a season or so ago for top lane?

I'm interested in hearing about the statistical and analytical side to balance, and usually all we hear about is that a certain champ might be too strong/weak and so we're testing incremental stuff or whatnot. It'd be cool to hear about what you're actually measuring that makes you decide a champ is in that state that they need tweaks, aside from bland stuff like "winrate."

qetzel11/24/2015, 11:28:47 PM3 votes

At the start of each PBE cycle I would like to know about what champs you are planning on looking at, what sort of changes you are considering and reasons as to why those are the changes you are trying to push. Sort of like the patch notes, but in more detail.

Sneak Dog11/24/2015, 11:05:47 PM3 votes

Narrative?

I'd love to hear narratives thought processes, their philosophies. They're a mystery right now, despite them busily retconning the entire world. (Without any player input at all it seems?)

For examples:

  • Do you treat the new world as a new world, or as the old one, but without IoW (Fairly sure it's just considered a new world).
  • What is ok to retcon, besides the announced retconning of IoW. Summoners and immersion. Individual stories that make sense even without IoW? Big events? Small events? Champions?
    
  • How connected do you want the world to be.
    
  • How many storylines should be actively ongoing at a time.
    
  • How often will stories be connected/merged, is there an endgame.
    
  • Will big real-world-event-related events be coming back yearly, or perhaps slower.
    
  • What kind of stories are you thinking of bringing on a regular basis? (Short stories, build-up, random stories about the world, a single on-going story)
    

I understand you can't talk about some of these due to spoilers, but I haven't seen discussions about anything like this from narrative. It's mainly gameplay and sometimes skins explaining their thought processes.

LaoBushido11/25/2015, 12:10:58 AM3 votes

what about a list of currently know bugs

Missus Muffins11/24/2015, 9:48:13 PM3 votes

I love this idea!

Some things I would love to hear about are the decision making in the champion design (primarily in kit design) and in skin designs (ex: How thematic skins are designed to be unique across different champions, but still cohesive).

Swizzle11/24/2015, 9:49:42 PM2 votes

Hey Pwyff,

I run a social media account that once and a while takes stuff that Rioters tweet about and relay it to the community to let them know what is going on in the Riot HQ. Nothing leaking content or breaking any form of NDA but just like the thought process behind some changes.

One thing they loved was seeing the old Azir Kit.

https://www.instagram.com/p/-LVdpwS8Fi/?taken-by=leagueofupdates

That was the post about the kit.

Look into a section where you guys can talk about changes and thought procceses, talk about the original Thresh kit (I remember watching how the W changed and alot of people will think that is super cool

-Swizzle

#i am still the captain in case you forgot

Ghost of Razgriz11/24/2015, 11:13:43 PM2 votes

Champion population. Champion skills have to feel unique and give an identity to the champion. They also shouldn't overlap with items (ie making an item that lets a champ restore 60% of their hp over 12 seconds makes Mundo a useless champ). So what happens as Riot approaches this cap where champs start to fill the roles of other champs and/or items? Do we start to see a stagnant population? Do old champions get removed? Or do you guys think that this cap is far removed from where League of legends is now and not a concern. I am very interested to see how developers see this issue and how Riot has chosen to approach it.

CTG SgtScoots11/25/2015, 12:13:37 AM2 votes

I am interested less in the actual developing and more interested in how they got to be part of the Riot developing team. What did they do prior to joining? How old were they when they started? What age did they start showing interest in their field? Things of that nature interest me because it really helps me understand the process they go through before they become the Rioter we know and love.

I used to read some of the old Rioter blogs that sort of covered this topic and I loved it. I'm not sure if you still do it so I thought I'd bring it up.

Siachi11/24/2015, 9:56:33 PM2 votes

I'd kind of like to hear what some designers have to say on the characters they've designed, whether from a character or mechanical standpoint. Even if they aren't exactly worthing with champ design anymore.

JMaestro11/24/2015, 11:09:36 PM2 votes

Ideally a list of champions that have skins planned, not necessarily info on specific skins but just a list of champs that have skins in the works that will probably be released soon. Similar i guess to the Champion update schedule. I just hate having to wait till the start of every new PBE patch cycle to realise that there are still no new Diana skins :'(

Best Olaf NA11/25/2015, 6:06:25 AM1 votes

What's Interesting: Different behind the scenes content such as, champion kits that are still being ironed out or ones that haven't made the cut to get into the game, Maybe get a breakdown of what each designer's philosophy is (though this tends to come out most when they make champions), something that shows how riot looks into balancing things all the background information that we the players don't see or only very few of us see.

Weekly basis would be preseason tuning goals, for example the minions being tuned what goal this design choice helps lead to, also more context on pbe changes.

Bi-weekly would be update news on things that haven't gotten news in a while such as a champion update or something.

Monthly would be developer of the month, have a q&a with riot's own selected developer of the month as well as the developer showcasing how they go about designing champions or something similar (not just champions but art as well can't forget ironstylus) basically a look into the selected dev's mind or potentially a short bio about them that is relevant to how they make stuff, ie if a dev played a ton of healers on wow maybe showcase their feedback on that and how that related to how they design stuff.

Nymphß11/25/2015, 7:30:52 AM1 votes

Would be cool to start topics like what's thrown out in the random in-client surveys of cool little things that could be implemented into the game and have discussions of things like that.

I'm sure everyone has the same goal of wanting this game to last for years to come and to continually get better and better. Just allowing us to brainstorm with you would be pretty cool, even if our opinions' weight is only worth 0.1%. Not implying I don't have faith, I can guarantee it's more than I have for CLG, but the mordekaiser thread for example was really cool and I just wanted to let you guys know I liked it.

horse cυm11/25/2015, 10:31:54 AM1 votes

Cross posting this from Reddit.

Late to the party here but I think a really good and broad discussion could be about past and future Featured Game modes.

Like for one, some devs could go through the design processes for crafting these, as someone said before it's just a case of pick a mechanic and do what you want with it until you make it work. But I would really love to find out more about the iterative process that goes behind something like Doom Bots.

Also, a big huge discussion would be what is the plan with all these modes, obviously things like Poro King will mostly be used for Snow Down. But what of the others? As you know there's always the thoughts on like a rotation every week or two swapping them out. But then this raises the concern as more champions get released and rewords you guys have to think about how they will work in things like Hexakill.

I would really like some more insight into these game modes and what the future is for them, this isn't so much a discussion about new game modes and new features. This is to purely find out what is happening with the ones that currently exist.

DogIsGod11/25/2015, 3:54:06 PM1 votes

Spaghetti code recipe?

Fasmodey11/24/2015, 10:27:59 PM1 votes

Updated Skin Splash Arts, like what you did with Poppy and few patches ago. Phantom Karthus makes my eyes bleed, not only because splash art is bad, but also how is this skin irrevelant with in-game model.

Thund3r Ang3l11/24/2015, 10:08:53 PM1 votes

I would like to know where are you at with Taric and Shen rework.

LegacyofTable11/25/2015, 12:21:47 AM1 votes

I kind of read it with a few other comments, but maybe you could tell us your plans for any future reworks for champions that really need it. Whether it be basic kit changes to entire reworks (Like Poppy or Sion level). There are PLENTY of champs right now that everyone can agree really need to be reworked, and I'd love to know what plans you have if any for the obvious and not so obvious ones.

Off the top of my head, Yorick is obvious. Taric is next before him though. But what about others, like Warwick Nasus Sona Shen? Anything planned for them for any small changes or major reworks?

DogIsGod11/25/2015, 4:22:08 PM1 votes

Are the balance changes influence by Plat+ stats?

SunSlayerKD11/25/2015, 1:19:32 AM1 votes

Excuses for perhaps looking at stuff the wrong way/ being too selfish in these.

-First of all, I would like to hear if there are any plans at all to make variations on Summoner's Rift. I know, I know: "oh god, another one".

I don't expect you guys are woking on full map variations, so I was thinking...

You guys already made (and are continuing with making) themed minions (Pool Party, PROJECT, Snow Down). These are really nice, but are you planning on going further with these? E.g: adding pieces every year or so? I'd love to see Sand Towers at summer or Snowman towers during Snow Down. if so, slowly but surely the maps would change into a more seasony look. (maybe also the VS in loading screen being more summery/icey/mechanical(for PROJECT))

I'd also like to know why the decision was made to only keep the things like PROJECT minions||Butcher's Bridge|| icon-specific Poros/finishers temporarily.

Is it too much stress on the servers? Is it because it wouldn't be as special anymore? Is it too much work to keep maintained for an extended time?

A lot of work went into Butcher's and I have seen ideas like making it random on which you'll fight. I understand you'll want to keep things more special and seasonal (like the icon-specific poros & finishers), but seeing as there was SO much work put into this & the next Harrowings might not necessarily be about Bilgewater as much, I thought I'd ask.

For PROJECT minions/loading in-game, there isn't really a seasonal cue, right? Are you planning on returning them whenever there will be something Mecha/Battlecast/PROJECT released or around the same time that the five newest PROJECT skins were released (which might then also be the time more come out)?

-Second, what is your guys' opinion on crit chance going from a nice extra to an absolute necessity to an abundance on ADC? Do you feel like there is a problem with the RNG in the laning phase (up until 2-3 items)? What do you guys think about the idea where crit on items (with some exceptions like Yasuo & Ashe) is disabled for a limited time/grows to the item's full potential over time/does less damage? e.g: 2A) Let's assume the game is 10 mins ongoing and you buy a 15% crit chance item. In the latter case, you could get like 10% immediately (10 mins) and gain 1% per minute until 15 mins when all items gain their full crit potential. 2B) The game has been going for 10 minutes and you buy a 30% crit chance item. This means 15% immediately, as it increases with 2% over time until full potential at 15 minutes. 2C) Game has been going for 20 minutes and you buy a 30% crit chance item. This means you just instantly get your 30%. 3) Instead of 200% from the beginning of the game, crit does about 150%. This makes the fights less dependant on RNG, since it does less damage. Over time, this increases until normal.

I remember back when BloodThirster was usually the first item rushed, IE was a really strong item, but the crit wasn't as necessary to feel like you were doing damage than now. After IE-rush became the standard, ADC duels became less of knowing your damage and planning it out, but more of planning out a part and hoping you crit to win. You don't crit, but the enemy does, purely by chance => you lose the duel, even if you might have planned it out better. Then, the tank meta happened (Cinderhulk, a buff to armor, Juggernauts even) where it felt like you couldn't do any/enough damage unless you crit (or you were a champion that automatically shredded tanks like Vayne & Kog). Now, preseason. I haven't played too much so if I'm wrong, ignore the last part of the question ;) It seems like crit has become even more of a necessity on ADC, as many more items grant it now as to open up more build paths.

Greg Focker11/25/2015, 1:39:18 AM1 votes

*** I already post this in the same thread on Reddit, but I will post my question here once again just to make sure - I would love to see Urgot being in the list for rework again. He is one of the worst champions in league of legends but I love him. I played Urgot more than 150 games and came to a conclusion that he sucks. He does not fit any role at this moment, he isn't an ADC or AD caster because he doesn't do enough damage. Hell I can't even build him as a tank because if I do the only thing tank Urgot can contribute is his ult. Could you please provide us Riot's plan on Urgot?

Belithioben11/25/2015, 3:28:30 AM1 votes

I'd be interested in a post about the art vs the science of design. When you start on a new kit, how much do you think about the overall flow of the champ vs the mean mechanics? When you need to fill a hole in the itemization system, do you start by crunching numbers or brainstorming?

One of the cool things about this here dev corner is that you have the opportunity to go a little more in-depth than might be appropriate for other, wider media outlets.

beany11/25/2015, 3:28:31 AM1 votes

I would like to hear about itemization (specifically manamune) or champion changes to ad casters, especially Jayce, who may or may not be weaker right now.

5Crescent711/25/2015, 4:25:23 AM1 votes

What i'd love to hear is if whether or not whoever is in charge of making all the music plans on making a second pentakill album for the pentakill skins? I just loved the first album so much i just want more.

darksteel11/25/2015, 4:25:59 AM1 votes

All I've really ever wanted from Riot was more transparency. We want to know what's going on, why things are the way they are, and just to feel like we're in the loop. Ultimately, a lot of companies are out of touch with the players on things, and I think they should close that gap. A good example of this are Hearthstone deck slots. People have asked for additional deck slots for more than a year now. Blizzard has come out with various discussions about it, about why we can and can't have it, but the net result is that almost everyone you talk to would like them, that they haven't come out yet, and that they're rarely willing to let us in the loop. The same is true for League, that we ask for various things and we'd like various things to happen, but Riot doesn't do them and doesn't talk to us about it.

I'm a programmer myself, and I understand how things work. There are all sorts of reasons why things can't happen, or why things get delayed. Projects get scrapped, whatever, I understand how it goes. What I don't get is why players are always left in the dark. Yeah, it will obviously be a let down when you tell us something like the Magma Chamber or whatever is coming soon, then never comes. But personally, I'd rather know what things you're working on. When you don't tell us that you're working on anything, we kind of get the sense that you're simply not working on anything. That obviously isn't true, but when we look at the things that are getting done, it can certainly come across that way.

A good Riot-based example is the replay system. What's going on with that? Last we heard, there were technical issues that they couldn't sort out that made it impossible to give us. I strongly disagreed with those technical issues and how they couldn't provide us with replays, or why things had to be the way they wanted it done (which was server-side as opposed to client-side). But the thing is, we never have a chance to say anything or hear anything. Riot keeps us in the dark, gives us one update, and then crawls back into the cave. We don't have to operate like that, we want to stay informed. We want to feel like we're a part of the decision making, or that our voices and opinions are being heard, because let's face it, we're the ones playing the game.

Anyway, that's my opinion on it and what I'd like to see. Simply an outlet for us to have discussions about what's going on.