Prototype Wukong Changes on PBE Context

RiotMeddler·May 14, 2019·1 votes·170,959 views

Hey folks,

Whole bunch of details here on some Wukong changes we’re going to be testing on the PBE for a while. First off, some context around them:

These changes won't be shipping for at least awhile . We're using art that’s borrowed from other champs/items because we haven’t committed to these specific changes yet. So even if the gameplay were to test really well, there’d still be some delay before we shipped them since we'd need to get the art revised.
There are some known bugs present in the modified abilities. Nothing that should have a meaningful effect on testing, but stuff that will feel a bit buggier than normal. Smaller stuff like this we don’t put time into fixing until a set of changes have been committed to either.
These changes haven’t been through a rigorous balance pass, so numbers won’t necessarily be representative of what they’d need to be for ship. The mechanics themselves are intended to be representative (e.g. Wukong’s Q heals him), so the specific numbers on the heal by contrast might be about right or might be meaningfully too high or too low. We’ve done enough testing to have confidence they’re not ludicrously off, but haven’t put them through a full balance assessment.
In addition to PBE testing, we’re also going to be running this changelist past some players onsite at some of our offices. That will give a more controlled environment than PBE can offer (more even and competitive games for example) and generates different feedback as a result.
Finally, this is a gameplay focused update. Things like changing VO, model, full animation update, etc. aren’t on the table at this time. We think that sort of work’s really important, but our docket’s currently full with other champions for it. Some art/audio adjustments are likely, but just those needed to accommodate the gameplay changes.

Ok, that’s a lot of context that isn’t all that interesting to most readers. Apologies, still important to share it though! Next up, goals of this work:

Add a few points of extra mastery to Wukong for those who want to take advantage of it
Make a bit more use of the trickster elements of Wukong’s theme
Improve ability satisfaction a bit
Avoid fundamental changes to things like ability targeting types (as to avoid a significantly more difficult skill floor for new players or large relearning period for existing players)
Improve Wukong’s counterplay, both laning pattern, and reliance on bursting targets
Focus on Wukong players, past and present, more than potential Wukong players

Ok, getting past the context setting which I’m sure a lot of you skimmed past anyway and into the changelist. Again, numbers haven’t necessarily been balanced, so this is much more about the direction of how the abilities work than what a particular number is.

Passive - Strength of Stone (was Stone Skin)

Part 1 Crushing Blows - New

Whenever Wukong or one of his clones damages an enemy champion, they apply a stack of Crushing Blows to that target. Targets take 4% increased damage from Wukong and his clones for each stack of Crushing blows (max 5).

VFX start small at one stack and get larger with each additional stack applied.

Part 2 Stone Skin - Redesigned

When 3+ enemy champions are visible within 1400 units, Wukong gains Armor and MR equal to 20 + 2 per level + 0.2*his bonus Armor/MR respectively. Bonuses last for 6s and renews if enemies remain near. Currently uses the Gargoyle's Stoneplate activation VFX when up.

Why these changes?

Wukong’s live passive is functional (gives him power, influences his itemization), but real low on satisfaction. Would like to keep the teamfight survivability aspect though. Trying a double passive, where both parts hopefully have better appreciability and neither needs to be as relevant in all contexts for the passive as a whole to feel better. For the defensive bit, giving him Armor/MR ratios to make mixing in more defensive itemization, if desired, a more sensible choice. For the offensive part, looking to shift some power on the kit away from a team amp to a personal amp and allow magic damage output, whether from Wukong’s kit or elsewhere, to also feel better.

Q - Golden Magical Staff (was Crushing Blow)

Now has a passive where Wukong gets 125 range on his next AA after he casts any spell (not just Q).

Now deals 20-100 bonus magic damage instead of 10-130 (+0.4 AD) bonus physical damage. Now heals for 20-60 (+0.25 AD) health (halved on minions) instead of shredding the target's Armor.

Why these changes?

Trying to give him more frequent access to increased range as a way to allow a combat pattern that's both a bit more varied (especially in lane) and doesn't necessarily have to be as bursty. Laning pattern also hopefully helped a bit by some sustain on the kit. Expectation is that basic effectiveness will be pretty easy to access, but extra range will allow a lot of optimizations, especially when combined with other parts of the kit.

W - Warrior Trickster (was Decoy)

Clone created now attacks nearby enemies dealing 50% of Wukong's damage instead of exploding for magic damage at the end of its life.

Clone lifespan increased to 2.5-5.0s (invisibility duration for Wukong himself unchanged).

Wukong creating a clone and Wukong pushing 'S' to stop moving will now look identical to enemy players (can bait them into believing you've cast W when all you've done is stopped moving).

Wukong's dash range when casting W increased to 200 units (was 100).

CD reduced to 16-8s from 18-10s.

CD now starts on clone death, not on clone creation (clone uptime, especially with CDR, becomes too high otherwise, CD reduced so that non-CDR builds aren’t too punished).

Why these changes?

Getting a bit more trickery in and exploring a combative clone as a fantasy win. Increased dash range pairs well with increased AA range passive from Q. Clone damage output being more relevant and increased potential for trickery hopefully gives some interesting optimizations.

E - Nimbus Strike

Other images of Wukong are now interactable clones that look just like Wukong and can be interacted with like any other unit. That means enemies won't be certain which exact target Wukong himself is going to until he gets there. Clones can also block skillshots.

AD ratio to 0.5 (was 0.8)

Now checks for secondary targets in a much larger area around the primary target.

Why these changes?

Primarily, we want to enable more trickery and again, add some mastery points for those who wish to to optimize around. Reducing AD ratio both to decouple Wukong a bit from such AD-bound builds and as a result of adding power elsewhere. AD builds should still be decent, but not to the extent most other builds aren’t worth considering.

R - Cyclone

Other spells are no longer locked out while you're using R. If you cast another spell, it will immediately cancel the ult in progress. Makes it easier to chain spells together basically if you want to end the ult early.

Why these changes?

Wukong's ult is pretty well liked and short of making really major changes, wasn’t finding any better and strong directions here. Just a small useability adjustment as a result. Considered increasing the damage tick rate, given that’s a common player request. Concluded it wasn’t the right call though, given that both binds him more to Black Cleaver and pushes him back towards burstier damage with his new passive. The knockup by contrast already checks for targets much more often than the damage is dealt, so there aren’t responsiveness gains to be had there.

Things feedback would be particularly appreciated on

If you’re playing as Wukong:

How much Wukong have you previously played?
Do you feel these changes result in you playing in somewhat different ways?
If so, do you enjoy that?
What builds would you be inclined to use with this kit?

If you’re playing against Wukong:

Is it clear what’s happening in game and how you should play against this version of the kit?
How frustrating do you find trickery from this kit relative to trickery from other champions in LoL?

316 Comments

E X Ø D ł A May 14, 201934 votes

I really wanna thank you Meddler for hearing people out and as a wu main hope these changes (which already sound awesome) bring our fantasy of wu back to life! Cant wait to try them out on pbe and give u guys feedback as soon as possible! <3 My only question is why q now deals magic damage and doesnt scale ? i mean 20-100 flat is kinda ok but i think the q part needs some other work on it plus depends on the cd its gonna be , would love love to hear ur thought on it :) @Meddler MonkeyKing

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201915 votes

Might shift some power around to get some scaling on the Q damage, or if he proves weak just add power there. Wanted to try a version without as a test for a much lower AD scaling kit though, especially given the Q passive adds a significant amount of power at some points in the game even if it's not direct damage.

Magic damage is an exploration into the kit being less focused on getting Armor Pen (whether Lethality or Black Cleaver) while also giving a tiny bit more power against Armor stacking enemies than would otherwise be the case.

Wukong AirlinesMay 14, 201927 votes

Hey Meddler, thank you for the update and the hardwork.

I'm a wuk main with over 2mil points on all accounts.

My intake on the information presented in front of me [first we need to test it to see how it goes]:

the kit looks good, yet utility is still almost the same.
although heals have been added, the heal looks like will heal on Q AA only, which is part of why we needed the Q mechanic to change to begin with [ i still have no idea how the Q works if it's still AA reset or something else], but either way I was expecting a skillshot with added range + skill expression and slight CC.
Wukong still has no reliable form of CC compared to his class and other bruisers , he has no slows and still will not be able to provide for the team, rather, now he's a skirmishing bruisers from what I see.
instead of giving him additional resistances, we could give him % damage reduction on his passive or "R" when he engages the first second for example, that would give him more survivability, that's what Wukong mains want, to be able to last longer with the R and not be bursted down.
he looks like he has more potential to outplay the enemy with the "W,E" changes, but why not make the "W" stackable"? I dont see him being a better trickster with 1 clone only and it has the same invisibility as well.
Again, from my point of view, changing the Q to a skillshot with slight CC would give him a way better spot for laning phase and extra CC in his kit, the knockup on the R is not enough for a bruiser that doesnt have any form of "movement speed boost or slowing the enemies".

No form of shields [which again can be added to his stone skin theme rather than resistances]. I will test it as soon as it goes on PBE and will provide more info later on.

                                                                                         _**Edit [ 3 Games played ]**_

I can only give feedback on how Wukong works in the jungle so far [im not a toplaner and I will let other top mains give their feedback]:

Jung wukong is really strong, specialy if combined with both Tiamat and sheen/tf /
Wukong now has 2 AA resets which makes him good in trading whether laning/ganks/counter jungling
There is no point in going Bruiser Wukong [for me I find the old assassin build playstyle is still viable though I recommend putting and as mandatory items for Wu since they will maximize his damage output with his Clone's damage and AOE at the same time]
Wukong lost 10% of armor shred but now the % armor shred can maximize his damage due to lasting longer for longer trades + his R can activate it on each tick]
I dont feel the heal or at least I find it a pointless extra addition
Wukong cant trade much with healers/shield bruisers [riven/darius etc] unless he bursts them down quickly
The armor/magic resistance part of the passive feels weak and irrelevant early/mid game and somewhat useful lategame [survivability problem still not solved]
I enjoy the Q passive that adds range, and if we want to make the Q healing better we should apply heal on each reset or can add both magic dmg and the heal as well for
Having no form of CC makes it hard to reach certain champs specially now that I try to save the W for trades rather than be sneaky [huge part of Wu's damage is in his W].
Wu's damage mostly relies on the Q passive [AA resets/added range + W damage].
sometimes the clone takes longer time to AA

Edit 2:

This rework doesn't work:

Survivability problem is still there. and it's still dependent on 3+ enemies, which makes him less of a bruiser in lane, even in teamfight, stats doesn't make a bruiser anymore, rather, shields/heals/AOE sustain [look etc] + the fact that Penetration exists makes the passive even weaker
Heal is terrible, my opinion [we dont need heal, we want something that can block % of damage for lane trading]
I don't consider Wu a trickster:

1 Clone is not enough, and the "S" stop command doesnt give you much potential to outplay anyone specially if they can AOE mash their keyboards to deny the outplay [ ..]
Tricksters are assasins, with huge outplay potential and mobility [check can dash 2 times, and go back to same spot 2 times stealth that works as gap closer/dodge skillshots, W can trap/trick enemies, R can outplay any incoming damage]

Wu lost a lot of damage, and doens't have any source of reliable [hybrid damage/true damage/ % damage] that would allow him to sacrifice building damage and go for defensive items, even with the 20% armor shred on his Passive, its still bad, since he lost 10% comparing to the previous Q.
Now you save W in hopes you deal damage in case someone tried to duel, cant work as an assassin or you will lose high damage output, cant be sneaky anymore [part of why he's not a trickster atm]
No CC at all, you cant contest with bruisers who can stun-knockyou up, many knockups and zoning spell, deny AA damage which W is heavily reliable on right now, and stun you, etc, All what wu got now is 1 second knockup on lvl 6.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20199 votes

Q is still an AA reset yes. Let me know how you're feeling about ability to access the heal once you've had a chance to try it in game?

My thinking around not adding additional CC was that there was an opportunity here to keep Wukong more distinct from other melee damage dealers while still making him more effective in some circumstances. If this direction doesn't work out we'd be open to considering more standard CC approaches, worry that makes him more generic though and undercuts our ability to offer other tools.

Revised Stoneskin on the passive is intended to give him better burst resistance in teamfights. Going with Armor and MR for now rather than DR because that gives better hooks into the item system for both Wukong and other players. He can itemize to strengthen the passive, with Stoneplate especially looking really strong in some circumstances, players really struggling against him can prioritize % shred. DR by contrast's a flatter mechanic that removes some depth from the game. It's got its place certainly, but think there's value in avoiding it where possible unless extreme consistency is really important (e.g. Braum E).

Been seeing some meaningful trickster increase with a single clone. Again, lemme know how if feels post play though.

option paralysisMay 14, 201916 votes

First off, Wukong was my first champ that I mained since season 4 . I know you said numbers are still not like theyre gonna be in the end, but to me it seems you gutted his E and Q dmg for a little heal and gimmicky E. I played assassin wukong for 5 years and the dmg numbers going down so low makes me sad. Even with those changes, you still cant do shit against renekton/jax/riven etc. in the top lane, but you gutted his assassin wukong mid gameplay, IMO. Honestly, I have no idea what type of builds would I use on the new kit, because it doesnt seem he can go against irelia and jax anyway. That little heal wont do anything, when ^^ those champs can do everything better. Also, I dont want Wukong to become just another braindead user of trinity steraks with conq, Id much rather like him to get the assassin type vibe with trickstery involved.

HarambeMay 14, 201914 votes

I agree

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20194 votes

I'm assuming quite a few numbers would change before anything goes live, whether up or down. Understand the concern around damage dropping, and could well be too low now. Do need to take some power out from some places if putting power elsewhere however - massive buffs and no changes to compensate isn't something we can do here.

In terms of performance against other fighters 1v1 appreciate the initial thoughts, would be great to also get people's feedback once they had some time to try them out in game. I'm expecting some changes to read as much less impactful on paper than they actually are and vice versa. Hands on testing's especially valuable as a result.

juanmiscar277May 14, 201915 votes

Hey @Meddler could you please consider the idea of making his q stun monsters for a really short time so he can also do scuttles and be a decent jungle? 🙂

Moody PMay 14, 201914 votes

is it necessary for all fighters to be vampires? I feel like sustain is becoming an obligation band aid for survivability problems lately

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201918 votes

I don't think all melee need to have sustain. I do think they usually need some form of laning survivability though, whether that be healing, untargetability, shielding, a parry or whatever. Melee without need either extremely high health regen (hidden sustain basically), safe ranged farming (so not true melee) or the ability to simply bully hard enough no one tries to trade with them. There are ways those approaches can work too but they bring other challenges so don't want to use them too often.

Moody PMay 14, 201920 votes

what if wukong spawned bananas on trees nearby and could pick them up for health over time, I think that would be more thematic

painkillsMay 14, 201910 votes

But a bit ridiculous, in my opinion...

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201920 votes

Thank you for the suggestion.

sinZsoulMay 14, 20194 votes

Peaches* look up sunwukong peaches if you have doubts.

Nerva CorvusMay 14, 20193 votes

So what about Ornn? He has a high base regen but not more than other champions which in addition also have a strong sustain like Cho'Gath, Darius and Nasus. Bonus resistances shouldn't be counted as laning survivability as it starts to get useful way after laning phase.

HarambeMay 14, 201911 votes

When will these changes be going live on PBE? I am awaiting to give a thorough response regarding what I think of the kit once I officially try it out. It's much more difficult to get into detail without properly implementing the new kit/playstyle.

BlukachuMay 14, 20193 votes

Seeing as youre quite a prolific name in the Wukong playerbase... can you please make sure to consider the changes for Wukong in the jungle too when you give your thoughts.

Would be a shame for is jungle mains to get overshadowed by laners only thinking about how these changes effect them and I know you can give a broader insight than most.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20195 votes

Should be today.

AveldenMay 14, 20198 votes

Changes look pretty good, the only thing that I would have to be curious about is if it would be possible for the clones (during E) could prioritize champions? Would be helpful during a 1v2 (or gank) with minions standing around.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201917 votes

I'm hesitant about adding additional reliability to a kit that's got pretty reliable targeting types on its spells already and is also getting some potential mindgame capability added as well. Prioritizing champs on abilities like this can make sense at times when counterplay's just too high otherwise, have yet to see evidence that that's an issue here however. Entirely understand desire as the Wukong player to have greater effectiveness in situations like that but don't think it's the right overall call off observations so far.

KaziMay 16, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I'm hesitant about adding additional reliability to a kit that's got pretty reliable targeting types on its spells already and is also getting some potential mindgame capability added as well. Prioritizing champs on abilities like this can make sense at times when counterplay's just too high otherwise, have yet to see evidence that that's an issue here however. Entirely understand desire as the Wukong player to have greater effectiveness in situations like that but don't think it's the right overall call off observations so far.

Do you think making him invisible for 1.70 or 1.75 seconds instead of 1.5 seconds will make him to op? I think that would be a great asset to his kit making him invisible for a little longer than he is now . I play him jungle and when im ganking and use w im always forced to press fast E to catch up the enemy . Sorry for the late post... im really curious if you can make him invisibile for 0.20 seconds more than his w works now in the pbe ... thank you !

RyúgaMay 14, 20198 votes

I don't have much experience on wu kong, but those changes seem to make him shift towards bruisery kind of playstyle and build, which is my favorite gameplay, so I might pick him up if those changes get through.

Pisse de BloosMay 14, 20198 votes

Could you please, please make the ultimate cooldown go off during it aswell.

Just for the sake of presence of mind.

i'll try all of this in PBE ASAP and give you feedback.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20193 votes

Sorry, I don't follow - the ultimate CD go off during what?

PowerOfDrainAgeMay 14, 20198 votes

He asks if it's possible for wuk's ult cd to start on cast.

Pisse de BloosMay 14, 20196 votes

During the active. Would shove 4 seconds out of 120 at best and make presence of mind work if you get kills while spinning.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20199 votes

Ah gotcha. Hmm, issue there is how to let the player cancel R still when desired. Way our spells are currently scripted can't have the spell slot both available to be recast (cancel) and get benefit from PoM. Lemme think about that one.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201912 votes

Ok, turns out we've got a solve on this already that a lot of other abilities already use. We'll treat this as a bugfix separate from this Wukong changelist and just add it into an upcoming patch in the near future, given timing on the gameplay update's unclear and no need to delay this particular fix.

letsfeedtogetherMay 14, 20196 votes

i really want to test these, i am not playing him but i want to maybe ill change my mind about him with the changes

Wukong MidMay 14, 20196 votes

Hi, Wukong main from Season 2 to Season 6.5, around Plat skill level.

Regarding power budget:

I want to hear some thoughts on champion design in general (sparked by these Wukong changes) on the subject of whether -- in my opinion-- "meaningless power" is taken into consideration in a champion's power budget.

Case in point - new Q magic damage, or old W magic damage

I argue that these are "meaningless power", because when I imagine myself playing this champion, whether or not that portion of the skill is there makes no meaningful difference to how I play, and no meaningful difference to my decision making in fight or flight scenarios.

If these "meaningless powers" are part of what the power budget is spent on, then I would urge you and the team that the new Q magic damage be:

removed completely and have that power better spent elsewhere for a more optimized skillset
or have that Q damage be less meaningless by making it physical damage
or magical but scaled with %hp or another manner where it is non-linear

For reference, a champion with very little "meaningless power" is Zed, where everything synergizes with something else, other than the passive being magic damage. But it is not meaningless. Why? Because it is scaled non-linearly and is immense aid in early game cs'ing.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20197 votes

For "meaningless power" in general, yeah, all power's taken into consideration when balancing a champ. Our goal's not always to make every source of power as optimizable as possible though, that can lead to kits that have too punishing a learning curve, demand the player focus on too many things at once, lack concentrated enough success/failure cases etc. Would argue sometimes power into something like base stats or damage on a simple ability is the appropriate call depending on what the rest of the kit looks like.

In terms of this Q specifically the Q bonus damage isn't really a decision point in all in situations certainly. When it comes to lane trading it's got some relevance by contrast, providing a small but worth tracking window for opponents to play around and Wukong to consider. Trying Magic Damage here as a way to open up his build paths a bit more, so he's not so strongly bound to Lethality and/or BC depending on exact tuning of those items.

Wukong MidMay 14, 20195 votes

My main stance is that the difference in "old champs" and "new champs" is that newer designs tend to have skillsets with more optimized ways of spending their power budget.

If the rework results in a skillset with the same amount of meaningless power --just shuffled around-- then I believe it will not do much in aiding changing the community's perception of the champion.

I believe it is possible to manipulate a champion's power budget (in this case Wukong) such that you push it in a direction away from the build path you want to avoid, all the while not adding meaningless power.

For a quick example, if you want to go harder on the "many clones" theme of Wukong, I would rather see a Q that doesn't do that magic damage, heals less (half), but:

creates a clone
clone also Qs and you heal from it

KaterfloriMay 14, 20195 votes

Since this concerns me a lot, too, I'll try to explain why I don't like the changes as they are written here.

I'm a Wukong main with about 1,1mil points and i've played him in almost every lane and role so far. This whole kit looks like it could help fighting melee enemys who stick with you or fighting in the jungle with the new W. My concern is how greatly it will affect assassin / back line diver Wukong. So far it looks like you've taken away his burst in all of his abilities. I understand that assassin playstyle might be a problem in general, but Wukong has a lot difficulties bursting people down as of now. I can't imagine it being even slightly possible with less dmg on E and Q. I greatly enjoy Wukong as a AD heavy champion who kinda fills a niche between teamfight heavy and assasin-like champion. I think this new kit will lack this kind of playstyle and you will be forced to build at least tanky enough to make your Q passive worth and to be able to not die without impact.

Giving dmg to his W also means losing dmg against ranged / kiting champions who will just run out of range of the clone instantly.

SpideraxeMay 14, 20194 votes

Excited to test these changes Meddler, could I ask if you want Wukong to be more assassin-y or bruiser with these changes

PowerOfDrainAgeMay 14, 20195 votes

Definitely pushing him away from being an assassin. It's so obvious in these changes, and it has been stated elsewhere

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201910 votes

This version's intended to move Wukong back somewhat towards a more bruiser like approach. Not trying to remove ability to burst down others entirely but do want to stretch out his damage output a bit, give him tools to be less all in dependent, let him live longer etc. Not sure yet if these specific changes have the balance between anti carry and extended fighter right though.

BlukachuMay 14, 20194 votes

Currently 0.5m mastery with Wukong in the jungle around mid gold with seasonal climbs from low bronze throughout seasons.

Firstly thank you for addressing key frustrations a lot of us monkey mains have been facing with a limited linear kit thats bound by certain playstyles.

Now obviously I havent playtested any of these changes and I cant talk for high elo but heres my initial thoughts....

What I really like; Q change. Whilst armor shred is nice, it feels slightly outdated in terms of interaction. I feel like we can stack black cleaver a bit easier with these changes too so it slightly makes up for it. The sustain has been a hig want for Wu players too. I also like that this becomes less bursty and more extended.

R change. This should actually help a lot. I dont know if its just me but there has definitely been a number of times where ive been locked into ult and cancelling into an ability is clunky when its needed in a very clutch position. A very appreciated QoL change.

Things im unsure of; W change. As this is the biggest change I dont as of yet have an opinion on it. Will have to try it out and see how it goes.

Things I dont like;

E damage going down to compensate for a difficult to take advantage of change. It would be extremeley difficult to utilise the E clones to block skillshots. The increased range for clones is nice but Id definitely prefer a non change on this ability of it means i dont have to sacrifice core damage.

Questions and points to note;

Is the attack speed buff element to his E staying?

With lower cooldowns I expect one current issue to come up moreso than it already does... mana gating. Is there any changes to mana numbers as a lot of players already struggle with this and they wont be able to take advantage of lower cooldowns if they are still held back by mana numbers.

Whilst the W change seems nice, how will the targeting be prioritised? It would be a shame if theres nothing inplace for this and my clone targets minions when theres enemy champions in range.

Is there something that I'm missing in terms of his jungle clearing. If anything it seems like early jungle clearing would be slightly worse off with these changes and Wu already has quite a bad clear.

Suggestions;

If the passive element of Q changed to auto-attacks acter using an ability slow enemies and tge active part had a slight range increase... there would be an appreciable CC element to his base kit that can help with taking scuttle too.

Some compensation to his mana numbers.

E damage revert.

Something small to assist with his early jungle clear.

Other than this the listed changes so far seem very promising and a step in the right direction that we mains have been hoping for for a while!! Thank you

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20197 votes

E potential damage hit here isn't to pay for other changes to the E, but changes to other parts of the kit. I'm not certain it's necessary yet, but suspect it is given other power being added and this seems to be one of the best places to cut damage as a result.

E still grants AS.

W prioritizes enemies within its range Wukong has just hit, otherwise it'll attack the nearest enemy at present. Pretty open to tweaking its AI, hasn't been a major focus yet. It also benefits from the extended range from his Q passive post spellcast.

We haven't done exhaustive jungle testing yet. Some clears on a previous version of this kit looked pretty reasonable, that might have changed though. Wouldn't want to penalize his jungling relative to his laning, my current inclination is he's a champ who should be supported in either position.

Appreciate the other feedback, apologies don't have time to respond to everything. Interested in how your thoughts change after seeing it in game on PBE.

TheShroudMay 14, 20194 votes

Can you make the clones also Q when you Q for half effect?

Do they do on hit effects?

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20194 votes

Intention is W clone does apply on hit effects yes. Possible some won't be working in the version on PBE, current plan is they all should though.

Clones will get the intended range from the Q passive if you already had it up before you cast W. They're not currently benefiting from the Q damage if you had that primed before hitting W, that's unintentional however, will make it so Q's used before W is spawned are copied.

Decoy RebornMay 14, 20193 votes

Hey Meddler , would you please make the Q deal AD dmg instead of ap !

GaliöMay 14, 20194 votes

Physical instead of Magical^

Sorry it's a peeve

BON ANNIV MECJun 12, 20193 votes

Why isn't it in the new patch? :(

FafliXMay 14, 20192 votes

I have played a lot of Wukong in the past, mostly in Dominion, but also toplane. I stopped playing him mostly after the removal of Dominion.

Immediate problems I see: The Q name is horrendous. Please that has to change.

Also, won't enemies instantly know whether Wu is real or not by the clone attacking something. If you press S, you won't attack anything. Also, even if you do, you deal more damage than the clone, meaning they should be able to tell after one AA. You could maybe press S, and then immediately start hitting the closest enemy to replicate it, but that sounds unnecessarily complicated. In cases where there are no enemies in the clone's range it's nice though.

Also yes, I'm just speculating on how it works here. Maybe I'm misunderstanding some mechanic of it here.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20196 votes

Thanks for the feedback on the Q name.

Looking at playtesting so far hitting 'S' and then AAing something to fake a W cast hasn't proven to be too complicated for most players who've wanted to try it.

Opponents are sometimes able to tell it's not the clone once the AA has landed and damage has been lower than expected, in busy situations though that's proven difficult for even pretty experienced players. Maybe that won't be the case once we get a wider group of people playtesting these on PBE and in labs, will see.

Diablo v2May 14, 20191 votes

have u planned anything for asol he loses all 1v1 midlane is there any chance u could nerf his e and buff his early game damage towards champions

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20197 votes

I'm going to be sticking to Wukong specific responses in this thread. For anyone who wants to ask about other stuff should have a QGT post later in the week. Can't guarantee I'll be able to answer any given question but will respond to the ones I can there. Would like to keep more focused threads like this one on topic rather than having them be spammed by a range of other stuff.

Diablo v2May 14, 20195 votes

thank you i appreciate it sry for changing the topic

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 20196 votes

Thank you for understanding :)