Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 11

RiotMeddler·7/11/2018, 3:27:34 PM·1 votes·104,254 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Gold funneling

We're aiming to have a nerf to mid/jungle gold funneling in 8.14. It's an issue we've been looking at for a little while now, given it creates lanes without much interaction and putting two income streams on one champion produces a range of balance issues. We haven't been able to find a fix that's low enough on collateral damage to regular jungle play, low enough on disruption for a regular patch and that meets our design values, especially on things like intuitiveness and clarity.

We're at the point though where we don't think we should let the issue persist while we continue to work on those constraints. We'll be going with a temporary solution as a result that's pretty ugly on the intuitiveness/clarity side, with the intention of replacing it come preseason when it's more appropriate to make larger changes. That temporary solution is heavily reduced gold from lane minions if you have a T1 or T2 jungle item and have the most gold on your team.

We're targeting gold on the champ being funneled to here because that's where the biggest discrepancy lies, with that champ having around 50% more gold at the 15 minute mark than the opposing mid laner. We also took a look at solutions that involved hitting XP instead, difference there's much smaller most of the time though (~10%). We considered nerfs to the support items too, to hit the other side of the equation, but conclusion was that wouldn't actually address the issue, given how impactful the gold lead on the champ funneled to would still be regardless. A penalty to lane gold when ahead by contrast is, despite being rather ugly and heavy handed, targeted directly at both funneling and the resource (gold) that's causing the problems. From internal testing so far affect on junglers who aren't funneling's been very small to non existent.


Nerfing Conqueror

We're planning on nerfing Conqueror somewhat. That probably happens in 8.15, though there's a slim change it slips into 8.14 still depending on how work this week goes. Details at time of writing still to be determined. One of our primary goals though is to get tanks back into a more appropriate spot, with things having swung too hard against them. Doing so initially by looking at systemic things like Conqueror that affect all of them, before getting into individual champion changes.


Runes selection UI

Not sure yet exactly when, but at some point after the cursor changes are out we'll be doing some work on the runes selection UI. At a minimum that will involve looking at which rune gets replaced when you're trying to change your secondaries. Might also do some work on things like color coding of rune trees, not sure yet. Possible it takes a while to happen, given we've got a few other projects also on the team doing that stuff, definitely planning to do so though.


Non LoL: Game Design Links

For anyone interested in discussions around game design and development processes the site below's worth a read. Covers some useful topics in pretty clear and concise way. Linked pages are the ones that particularly leapt out to me, many of the other sections are good too though:

Iterative approach: https://learn.canvas.net/courses/3/pages/level-4-dot-0-science-of-design?module_item_id=44537

Prototyping: https://learn.canvas.net/courses/3/pages/level-5-dot-1-prototyping?module_item_id=44546

Decision Making: https://learn.canvas.net/courses/3/pages/level-6-dot-1-tips-on-decision-making

Different kinds of fun: https://learn.canvas.net/courses/3/pages/level-7-dot-0-kinds-of-fun?module_item_id=44563

Different types of player: https://learn.canvas.net/courses/3/pages/level-7-dot-3-player-types?module_item_id=44566

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

415 Comments

Frozen Diva7/11/2018, 4:18:04 PM13 votes

Liss OTP here and I love the new passive and the change to her E.

But I do feel like her early game and her laning phase (especially in mid lane) is weak. You rely heavily on your opponents mistakes. Of course there has to be a downside if you have amazing teamfight capabilities like this with her new passive.

But I feel like she needs a bit more dmg in the early game to get to the point where she can actually kill a target in the backline to trigger the passive as the game goes on. Maybe you can move some dmg from E to her W or add a little more base dmg to her Q? Nothing too big.

Just curious to know what you think about her early game/solo performance.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Queš7/11/2018, 3:30:25 PM10 votes

So are u going to nerf true damage part conversion of conqueror?Would u consider to compensate it somewhat with a bit higher bonus ad at this point ?

Auve7/11/2018, 3:35:06 PM10 votes

How will this affect The Twisted Treeline given that "funneling" is an established part of support meta?

PapaGreg217/11/2018, 5:17:12 PM7 votes

For tank jungle mains, everything has been awful since the scuttle meta began. Even if you succeed early on (which is rare) you aren't alive long enough to be a front line for your team because damage across the board is outperforming defense across the board. You would think now that ADC's are weaker, it would be the perfect time for tanks to be meta, but it's just the opposite, meaning they are probably in a worse spot than everyone realized. Am I alone in feeling this way?

big boi edri7/11/2018, 7:00:44 PM5 votes

Thought on the MonkeyKing nerfs and the intentions there? The base E damage seems to only target his early game where he is already weak. With keeping the same AD ratios on his Q/E, he'll still be able to 1 shot just as quickly around 2 items. Wukong doesn't play as a lane bully in most matchups, so I'm curious why the decision to nerf him there as opposed to possibly landing him in the middle ground on his prior Q buff? 30% rather than 50% scaling I mean.

Just curious as a Wukong main, I don't want to see him over nerfed if the proposed changes aren't effective.

SnugglePuggle947/11/2018, 3:51:46 PM5 votes

I'm sure you've seen all the discontentment on the boards recently. And that is surely well founded because of what you and Ghostcrawler have done. We still don't have ANY feedback from you or him on any of this. Do you feel we are wrong about this? Can we get any insight?

Preferably, most people want this season to be reverted because of all the damage you all have done. Is there any possibility that can be done?

Please talk to us about this. Thank you.

MastermindMarkus7/11/2018, 3:33:23 PM5 votes

Does this mean the nerfs on e.g. Taric E or Nunu W will be reverted?

JimmyRevSullivan7/11/2018, 5:14:55 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler

Since DrMundo is a pretty strong pick right now even after his recent nerf on E i think you guys are looking into more changes in order to balance him so i have a sugestion: How about add scalings into his kit and reduce his base dmg? I mean,Mundo builds full tank because is the best option since he can't really use an offensive item like his juggernaut brothers like Darius so he ends in a pretty tough spot in terms of itemization because his only scaling is laughable and it's not going to be relevant unless you somehow manage to get like 1000AP. My idea is basically make Mundo a proper juggernaut and make him build atleast one offensive option in order to keep his dmg relevant instead of smacking people to death with base dmg while also being unkilliable because you build full tank. I suggest ap scalings in order to make Mundo more unique,you know? We have a lot of ad juggernauts but only Mordekaiser is an proper ap juggernaut so i think Mundo can join him and build things like Liandry(i'm pretty sure liandry was one of his recommended itens for a while :P ) or any other Ap + Health item.

English is not my main language but i hope you can understand what i'm trying to say ^^

7deadLeeSlnz7/11/2018, 4:43:53 PM4 votes

Context for Corki changes on the PBE? And do you have any plans for Galio?

Galiö7/11/2018, 3:42:56 PM4 votes

General questions I guess.

Why was Zoe planned to have a huge nerf and then given a mediocre nerf on pbe?

Why is it ok to 'funnel' gold in the bot lane for seasons but not mid lane?

Is it possible to give Galio back his on being hit heal instead of DR on his W? ;)

kihashi7/11/2018, 3:49:21 PM4 votes

Any idea if this "funneling" change will also apply to Twisted Treeline?

atlıkarınca7/11/2018, 3:30:44 PM4 votes

How are the studies about Lissandra going?

M00ndanc37/11/2018, 3:33:39 PM4 votes

How does the lissandra passive work with things like jhins e passive or on champs that are super huge like chogath. The way its worded, it sounds like jhins e with a mini trundle pillar in the middle, but since it says its a statue of the champ, what happens if the champs model is larger than the aoe?

Wobly7/11/2018, 3:36:06 PM3 votes

Any insight on Nasus changes on PBE?

Noekepoek7/12/2018, 5:37:27 AM3 votes

Honestly! As a bruiser player I feel so disregarded, until conqueror, bruisers were irrelevant. You guys even forgot to make a keystone for them. Now tanks have been in a bad spot for Al couple patches, and immediately you start talking about getting them back into tot meta. How is tanks being bad for 3 patches a problem, while bruisers are disregarded for half a season?

WhiteFlame447/13/2018, 12:25:21 PM3 votes

Funnelling is an unhealthy mechanic huh? Have you heard of bot lane where the support already funnels gold into the adc?

Thespaceo7/13/2018, 8:48:19 PM3 votes

Are there any specifics on the cursor updates? As a person playing on a 4k screen, I've had trouble seeing my cursor during fights, and I've read many other comments on the board complaining about this. I think that most people would be happy with a basic cursor scaling option in the settings, which hopefully shouldn't be too difficult. Also, if this type of change is not being considered, I would consider the fact that players are using 3rd party software like yolomouse to edit their cursor size, and not implementing a change would encourage people to use this software because there is no official support for the issue. While I don't use this software because it technically goes against the TOS, I think that many other players don't feel this restriction because Riot has not put in a cursor update.

Bern7/11/2018, 5:47:31 PM2 votes

Glad you're addressing funneling seriously and quickly, even if it's a little heavy-handed.

Any concerns about this gimping the carrying ability of soloq junglers who get ahead through early kills, though? I can imagine this hurting some of their more extreme success cases (especially those who would splitpush after getting fed). I assume you think it's worth the tradeoff, since the amount of cases affected is low?

Pendergast8917/11/2018, 5:58:12 PM2 votes

to clarify with the lane minion gold nerf, a champion has to have a jg item AND have the most gold on the team? not just one or the other right?

waiting for WoW7/11/2018, 3:37:58 PM1 votes

Has Riot considered any other way to buff Liandry's Torment besides the current one on the PBE? Like reducing the cost by 100 gold so it can at least match the price of Morellonomicon and be more competitive for that item slot?