Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 25

RiotMeddler·7/25/2018, 2:41:35 PM·1 votes·85,835 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Prototypes

Something we've been thinking about a lot recently is how we could expose more of our work in progress directly to players. Hope there would be that early feedback on things that are still pretty rough could help us identify and fix problems, or, alternatively if something's really not working, help make the decision to kill it. We've tried such an approach a bit on the PBE this year, with work in progress on Quinn, Rengar, Fizz and LeBlanc exposed for feedback earlier than we normally would. That's gone pretty well. We’re going to try doing a bit more of it as a result, including for projects that aren’t just champion work. We’ll have some details to share next week for anyone interested in that side of things.


Gold Funneling

Since the 8.14 penalty to gold funneling got added jungle items we've been seeing two pain points in particular from it from regular jungle play:

  • Regular junglers who get ahead, usually off early kills/assists, who then get punished by it even though they're not the intended target.
  • Junglers who often prefer to not finish their jungle items, particularly those that split push later in the game.

We're looking at possible adjustments to the current penalty rules to reduce problems on one or both of those points. Possible there's something in 8.15, not certain yet at time of writing. Given the current penalty itself is a bandaid until pre-season if we do find an adjustment to make it's likely it's also a bandaid that gets removed come preseason when we get a better overall solution in.


Crit Item Changes

We've been continuing to work on crit item changes for 8.15 this week, with some shifts in what's likely to ship versus our thinking last week:

  • We're keeping Zeal items at 30% crit for now. We do want to address crit overcapping. Cutting Zeal crit amount however without also changing how IE works results in marksmen power curves getting pushed later, with more of a marksman's power coming from the second Zeal item spike. That clashes with one of bigger goals of moving some power from late game to early/mid game. We're keeping the crit overcapping in 8.15 at least as a result. We will address it, but didn't want to do so in a way that traded one cost for a larger one.
  • We've added an additional passive to IE, where it gives bonus damage on crits against minions/monsters. Not expecting the power from that to be too high, it does help both to give marksmen a bit of epic monster objective power back and improve satisfaction of a common basic action (AAing minions)
  • Not a crit item change, but a related one is that we're also increasing the cost of starting support items by 50g to reduce the number of pots a support brings with them to lane. We're doing that because we're seeing supports able to pressure non supports too hard early game due to the larger health pool they've got access to. Supports with inherent sustain and/or protective abilities (generally tanks and enchanters) are the ones we expect to be least affected by that change, given pots represent a smaller proportion of their available health.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

246 Comments

Gramps697/25/2018, 2:47:28 PM18 votes

Can you address the overwhelming damage creep/mobility creep we've seen lately? There's been a lot of outcry on the boards regarding this, the community would simply like some kind of statement to gain a better understanding of what your goals are

Infernape7/25/2018, 2:50:51 PM16 votes

Is there any chance of power being redistributed among Shen's and Ornn's kit to make them less powerful in competitive play but playable in casual play? It doesn't feel great having a champion you play getting nerfed solely because of their performance in competitive play. Especially when they're already statistically bad in casual play.

RiotMeddler7/25/2018, 2:44:15 PM14 votes

Couple of other notes since this was written yesterday:

  • We've got a modification to the gold funneling penalty in testing now that's likely to ship. It changes the penalty to apply when you have the most CS on the team, rather than the most gold. That removes cases where picking up a number of early kills/assists leaves junglers getting penalized. Split pushing potentially still gets hit later in the game if you're doing really well and not finishing your jungle item. Should be less of an issue too though.
  • My schedule's unusual today, so I'm posting this early. I'll have time to respond to one or two things, will come back a bit later in the day.
Daoist7/25/2018, 2:54:24 PM13 votes

Hey Meddler, Any plans on Azir Ryze Kalista ? They seem to be doing poorly in both competitive and normal gameplay.

DragonIgnis7/25/2018, 3:01:55 PM10 votes

Thoughts on Talon? The W nerfs seem to have done nothing for Talons that build tiamat. They still shove the wave and then roam. If anything, the W nerfs further incentivize Talons to build tiamat. Talon is also ranked as the best mid laner on OP.GG despite the nerfs.

Another best pick is Quinn for the top lane. She's got a sizable pick rate and a large win rate. It makes sense that Quinn has an advantage against melees given the nature of her kit. However, do you think she could require some toning down? Quinn also sees some play in mid and bot now. It's probable that her strength comes from the addition of Stormrazor, which Quinn buys during the mid game.

What about Syndra? On PBE, Syndra has an early game buff for her Q. The buff is nice for a skill that's her bread and butter but I have doubts that it'll be sufficient to bring her into relevancy. I know Syndra has a reputation in pro play but she's considered a bottom tier mid in solo queue.

Sexy Jack Rabbit7/25/2018, 2:49:51 PM9 votes

Any pre-emptive nerfs for yas on their way?

Inventive7/25/2018, 4:24:17 PM8 votes

Soooooo, Quinn Nerfs anybody? I love getting killed by Q Auto while having 2.5k HP and 130 Armor. Chum is fum is all i say

Cyber HeroXL7/25/2018, 3:20:16 PM6 votes

what does the data say about item 3030 ? i rarely saw it on mages other than aurelion sol and after it no longer built out of catalyst he dropped it as well. personally id like a revert (building it on sona was amazing) but what would replace it as the third chapter item?

No Calculus7/25/2018, 3:01:28 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler, I see that late game AD's are being buffed. But what about late game scaling mages like Orianna Viktor Azir ? I think they'll need some love.

Palaven7/25/2018, 4:42:38 PM5 votes

My issue with the support item cost being increased to 400g is that it removes the option of buying refillable (something I almost always do). Refillable is more of a value item where I assume the change is to prevent supports from taking three health potions.

Doran's users already can't take refillable on their first buy. It's been limited as an option to Junglers, Dark Seal users, and Supports. If it gets removed as an option for supports it is now even more limited as a starting item.

LuxannaVeritas7/25/2018, 2:48:07 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler!

I was wondering how you think Amumu is doing currently; he's my favorite jungler but I feel like I get outclassed by fighter/bruiser junglers whenever I play him (I'm not that good, though, so I could just be bad lol). What do you think about his position in the game?

Señor Hot Buns7/25/2018, 4:18:58 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler,

Out of curiosity, are you guys looking into increasing the stats/power of defensive runes? I feel there is a lot of damage in the game right now with little to respond to it.

Shaian7/25/2018, 2:59:17 PM5 votes

Any chance Zyra gets a revisit of her plants and Q (prefered harder nerf to her passive and maybe W in favor for her plants). Zyra lost alot of fun since preseason. Im purely talking about gameplay and not power, that should be kept neutral. A nerf to her passive would nerf her earlygame. A buff to her Q would make her more skilled to play. The base strength the passive gives her currently makes her too good in bad hands. The difference of good and bad Zyra‘s is lower than it ever was and alot of Zyrastreamers quit and started new champions. Do something for our little community :(

meteorbreaker7/25/2018, 3:54:54 PM4 votes

Hello Meddler!

ZYRA!

  1. Any plans about Zyra? Where the plant changes that should have been? When will the changes be relative to her solo position? in particular midlane Zyra.
  2. So this is all talking about Zyra support. Stop it this. Once we talk about mages, it means basically about the midlane, and Zyra like nobody else needs help here.
  3. Are you talking about the changes of some mages in the future cycle, Zyra is among them?
Spideraxe7/25/2018, 3:55:02 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler any plans personally to join Qt and Scarra on BTR again? Loved both times you went on with Wrekz and Stash

Cons7/25/2018, 2:44:31 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler. Sorry for going a bit off topic but I wanted to ask whether there are any news about full 4k support? Now that the new cursor has been introduced, the only thing that makes the game unplayable in 4k are the small icons on the minimap. Have you considered going for some kind of a bandaid fix at least? Like upscaling the icons if higher resolution than 1080p is selected? It wouldn't matter if it was blurry. Thank you in advance and keep up the great work.

CleanupDust7/25/2018, 10:14:11 PM3 votes

"Supports with inherent sustain and/or protective abilities (generally tanks and enchanters) are the ones we expect to be least affected by that change, given pots represent a smaller proportion of their available health."

Can you elaborate on this? How does this change hurt tanks less than it hurts poke mage supports? Tanks need the sustain since they are already getting bullied super hard in lane due to range advantage, I don't understand how you can say they are the least effected by the change when they are the ones suffering the most.

s00cl0se7/28/2018, 5:30:23 PM3 votes

I heard you have a mini rework scheduled for diana, where her E has been completely changed to something that gives her a gap closer and CC , pre lvl 6 . Can you confirm or deny this

Mokuto Bunshi7/25/2018, 7:38:39 PM2 votes

@Meddler

Hey I just wanted to know is there ANYONE looking at Kled's bugs right now?

As far as the players can tell he has 10 obvious ones still. I Wrote them all down here in a convenient place: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/oAvUvnLd-gameplay-kled-has-10-bugs-and-counting-all-listed-with-recreation-some-methods

A BUNCH of them are repeatable. I even had the ult pathing bug yesterday (in ranked).

TL;DR As far as his design goes Kled hes a VERY good early-Mid champion. Also he's top 10 top laner. But I THINK his bugs are holding him back from the potential of his design ESPECIALLY E+Flash interaction bug and the W Level bugs.

MisterDapper7/25/2018, 8:22:55 PM2 votes

On the subject of making jg better for junglers. Scuttle should be reverted or nerfed. Since it's centered around champs that perform well at lvl 2 and there's little diversity from that. Moreover it's not healthy to get ganked by a jg at lvl 2 especially right after getting to lane or to lose scuttle crab because you get 2v1/3v1 in river. Since your laners don't try to match for one reason or another. Also to improve diversity jg camps would need to give slightly more jg exp. Since it takes two jg camps just to hit lvl 3. If you don't get a huge lead from the gold and exp Scuttle offers.

Decerux7/25/2018, 8:24:02 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler,

At this point why not just revert the jungle changes that counteract gold funneling until a more complete solution is in place? It seems counter-productive to hit two types of junglers to remove one strategy. I can understand finding a temporary fix to a problem, but if that fix comes at a cost of punishing legitimate junglers for just performing well or attempting a splitpush strategy, then I don't think it's one worth keeping.

rosborn7/25/2018, 11:41:31 PM2 votes

I'm surprised to hear that even Rioters are proclaiming that players "lose stats" when hitting 100% crit with IE. IE is balanced around giving players 30-40% crit. It is NOT balanced around giving players 60% crit, so you aren't losing power when you hit the 100% crit limit. In fact, the only time IE gives more than 40% crit is when you are building your second zeal item and have 45% crit (doubled to 90%). This means IE LOWERS the powerspike of finishing a zeal item and allows Riot to balance ADCs around having a smoother power curve. Moving zeal items down to 25% crit would only INCREASE powerspikes and make it harder to balance IE. Yasuo is the only champion that realistically loses stats from IE as it is effectively a 20% crit item for him. As he is quite strong right now, I don't see this as a problem with the item.

Leyin7/25/2018, 2:55:01 PM2 votes

About the Prototypes: What do you mean about non-champion work? Something like pre-season changes or overall game system changes? And how do you want to share it? Like the champion changes? So that the result is that you have changes longer on a PBE or do you want to share stats,texts and videos,images etc of testbuilds to test it, but not ruin the testing of different things at the same time?

ShadowCat77/25/2018, 10:23:15 PM2 votes

Can someone explain to me why "overcapping crit" is a concern? Can't we just think of IE's passive as a 30%-40% crit instead of a crit double (assuming you have a full zeal item because why wouldn't you)? Why would anyone care that their crit chance is > 100%?

Sir Marillion7/25/2018, 5:54:11 PM1 votes

Can I ask you your opinions on Zilean? I think he has an amazing gameplay but he looks really ugly!