Mid Year Mage Updates - Brand Direction

Riot20thCenturyFaux·2/27/2016, 2:24:00 AM·1 votes·131,677 views

Hello world!

In keeping with the Vel’Koz and Malzahar posts, I’m here to talk about everyone’s favorite fire-haver, Brand! As with other mage update posts, this isn’t a changelist; there won’t be numbers or specific mechanics in here. This is about our thinking on the champ-- What we like about him, what we don’t, and what we’re hoping to accomplish with the update. For myself, I started playing Brand as he released -- the good ol days when his DoT had full return from spellvamp. Brand is the epitome of epic fire mage, and we mean to see him succeed in the modern faster-paced game.

We’ve been keeping an eye on Brand threads for a while and got a lot of extra discussion during the update post. Players seem to identify with two main souls in Brand—an explosive mage who burns people to the ground and a slow burn mage who eventually kills even the beefiest targets. Both of these work reasonably well on live -- there’s nothing in his kit that presents an unfulfilled fantasy as, say, Voidlings do on AP Malz. His core combo gameplay is fun and engaging.

Trouble is, Brand’s basic kit doesn’t have enough special stuff--he needs to have the best damage numbers to compete. Because of his lane dominance and difficulty surviving teamfights, if he’s not overtuned he has a hard time existing in a world of dashes and blinks. When he first came out, % max health damage was much more special than it is now. The Rylai’s + Liandry’s combo is the closest he gets; aside from those items, if there’s a reason to pick him, it’s typically because he currently deals the most damage. We feel the main thing he needs is a special contribution to the game, one that keeps with his theme of exploding enemies’ hitpoints.

Here’s where we think he’s at. Stuff that’s good:

  • Simple spells with room to express skill thanks to his combo system.
  • % max health damage means he kills anything eventually -- a strength that goes well with his low mobility and moderate range.
  • Twin souls – a burst mage with a respectable sustained damage pattern.
  • Good counterplay and interaction -- Brand already has clear weaknesses that make room for epic strength, because his opponents have ways to act against him.

Stuff that’s less good:

  • Outside of Liandry/Rylai, there’s not much reason to pick Brand over other AoE mages unless he simply deals more damage than they do. Tough to balance.
  • R acts like a violent slot machine, that unpredictability frustrates both Brand and his opponents. It tries to be controllable, but it often isn’t in practice.
  • Great at obliterating individuals or pairs, but the fire fantasy could go farther—he doesn’t often get to burn everyone. Burning the world is a major thing for him.
  • A bully in lane inherently due to passive and W, forcing him to fade into irrelevance unless he gets enormously fed.

Here’s what we’re trying to get out of the Brand changes:

  • Brand should still play like Brand. He’s fun and surprisingly deep.
  • Brand can still do Brand things—annihilates squishies when ahead, jungle ganks against him have big 1v2 turn potential, strong kill potential in lane (if less bullying).
  • There’s a unique reason to pick Brand and it’s expressed in damage. Brand is a combo AoE fire man who explodes things. This will only become more true.
  • The damage Brand deals should not require luck.

That’s all the thoughts for the initial post. I’ll be away for a few hours – parents are here to visit, I’m showing them around the office – but I’ll be around to reply later today and off and on over the weekend.

Good hunting, 20thCenturyFaux

305 Comments

Minjo Master2/27/2016, 3:14:01 AM79 votes

I know it's probably one of the most iconic "Brand" things, but I honestly have no attachment whatsoever to his ult and would have zero problem with it being completely removed and replaced with something different. It's just not compelling at all to me. A big bouncing fireball? Why would a fireball bounce anyway? And it's annoyingly RNG sometimes too. I always thought that Brand's ultimate should be like, some huge ass aoe fire that he starts that really encapsulates "set the world on fire". Dunno what I would have it do really, but it would be flipping huge and hella metal and we can run from there.

Forbidden Cookie2/27/2016, 8:21:51 AM16 votes

IDEA: Why don't you LITERALLY let Brand set the world on fire? Say, Brand hits someone with a spell and they are ignited via his passive, his passive could ALSO:

A.) Burn the ground beneath them. Niche becomes "good at punishing stationary enemies." Synergizes well with teams with lots of hard cc and slows.

B.) Leave a fire trail behind ignited enemies. This would provide him an interesting niche at punishing fast-moving enemies because the trails that they would leave would be longer than slower moving targets, making it more hectic and chaotic to avoid.

Ricky Spanish DC2/27/2016, 2:32:47 AM10 votes

Can we also acknowledge the brand support niche- it is viable and should be addresed in the update.

Hellioning2/27/2016, 2:33:11 AM10 votes

Are you looking at his E? It is probably the biggest contender for 'least interesting skill in the game' at the moment. It basically only exists so that you're not really giving anything up to set your passive up against a single target, and even if you do want to use E's bonus when the passive is up, you're probably gonna W first.

Also: What are your ideas for things he could do that other mages couldn't?

Pyro2/27/2016, 7:32:03 AM7 votes

You guys probably already have me in the stats as a "Brand main". Thousands of games over the last few years, all skins, etc.


I've been playing him for more than 4 years and I always felt like the whole game is rigged against him. The only reason why he got popular in the preseason was because all mage items got gimped and everyone else was suddenly just as screwed as he always was.

His power curve and scaling is just off. Once you get Liandrylai, you're a god. But until then, other mages have way better power spikes with Luden's, Lichbane, Zhonya's - or just good kits with mobility, utility and CC, which makes CDR (Morello/Athene) an option. And after Liandrylai - Brand falls off. Hard. Other mages have better stuff in their kits that makes them relevant in the lategame. Brand in the lategame can't 100-0 people, is helpless against enemy all-in, and his damage does not scale into the lategame as well as other champions'.

Right now this might be less true, but my "the game is rigged against him" observation comes mostly from the long-term experience - mobile assassins such as Ahri, Zed and god-damn-you Fizz all came out after Brand and made him obsolete in competitve play.

The only reason I'm Diamond is because Brand is a champion that makes your team win for you. They make the plays, they protect your ass, they clean up the kills. You just faceroll your keyboard and deal obscene amounts of AoE.

As far as mechanics are concerned, my biggest issue is the cast time of E + Q combo. It's just SO STUPIDLY LONG. Every other mage has a line skillshot with CC as their base spell that gets cast in half the time Brand's combo does. Brand has a stun, okay, but any competent player will easily dodge it as it's clearly telegraphed.

This is why Brand has never been picked in LCS. Ever.


Stuff I'd consider for Brand:

  • Knockback on Q (or on W, Velkoz style)
  • Have E proc like Sejuani's Permafrost instead (just get rid of the current E)
  • More fire. Consider zone effects like Shyvana's W. Or more burn damage when enemies stick together.
  • Stacking passive from lower amount than it currently is to something even higher
  • Do something with the ultimate, it makes him irrelevant in pro play. I wouldn't mind having it replaced with a proper firestorm
  • Make him relevant lategame.

You could even consider a death passive like Karthus has. After all, Brand is a spirit possessing Kegan Rodhe's body. That would heavily buff his lategame power while allowing to retain a damage-only kit.

Another "spirit unleashed" option is making his ult a temporary buff to all his base spells, as is with Ryze and Shyvana. That would allow him to get a satisfying window of power.

steinberg2/27/2016, 4:09:42 AM6 votes

Please for the love of god don't make any more rework champs have gimmicky things like shen's spirit sword or skarner spires

SeargentAnus2/27/2016, 2:37:49 AM5 votes

Is spellvamp being reworked along with this mage rework?

12q34e2/27/2016, 8:40:09 PM5 votes

What about a hostile Sunfire Cape effect. When brand hits some one they radiate aoe damage to their allies. Perhaps spreading brands passive, or refreshing. Just spit balling here on the theme of he actually lights people on fire and that fire has an effect around them

ZachOfAllTrades3/2/2016, 10:03:34 PM4 votes

I love the brainstorming sessions we get out of these boards. It's pretty awesome to see the individual strengths of different ideas and how each person sees their ideal flamethrowing hothead.

Let's take a quick second to look at Brand's ultimate. We'll take some awesome pieces of different ideas from this board to form a new idea that's packed full of new hotness. Collaboration...whoa. (If you weren't mentioned below even though you had the same/similar idea, it's because you're super-awesome, but equally as sneaky so I didn't see your post. Way to be a ninja.)

(BLADEGLORY) - Controlling the ult?

(Pyro) - "Make him relevant late game."

(Minjo Master + lots of other peoples) - "annoyingly RNG sometimes"

(SpeedTimo) - 2v1 is very rewarding. 5v5, not so much.

(Herald) - Scales with more opponents present.

(Morrivar/Dorwee) - "Fire is unpredictable." RNG isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Let's take these concepts and work them into a new idea...

When Brand initially uses his R, he gains an additional usable charge for each nearby enemy champion that was previously affected by his Blaze passive. This way his R's usability and damage scales with the size of the enemy threat and the ability of the player to pre-plan and manage his/her spells in a fight. Plus, your goal before you ult is to set ALL the things on fire...after which you proceed to burn the world with multiple Pyroclasms.

(Cast delay is required to prevent things from getting too chaotic to counter play. Also, for those of you screaming "OP!" damage scaling and balancing is also required...breathe...everything will be K.)

Multiple R uses also keeps the relative click/aim intensity pretty close to Brand's live kit and helps to ease the RNG frustration. How do you level out RNG outlier craziness? By repeating the RNG scenario enough times to get an averaging effect. Oh man, I think math just happened.

WP team.

VG Crows2/27/2016, 8:56:12 AM3 votes

Hi there. Some time ago I left a post regarding Brand and got a Red answering it:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/QR4bkELK-mage-update-brand

I'm just wondering if something from what I've posted really gotten through to you, and by that I mean if the post itself had any impact on maybe your thoughts, decisions and/or other stuff regarding Brand? Just curious

Herald2/27/2016, 6:11:13 AM3 votes

For his R, why not do something along the lines of how Earthshaker's Ultimate would do, it causes more AOE when there are more opponents around. Something like once it hits a champion, it splashes to all nearby enemies, and this keeps going until there are no more instances. This stays in line with Brand, since wildfires get more disastrous when there is more things to burn around. To prevent it from being too over-powered, you can put a damage/chain cap on it, the extra AOE after a certain point would just make it easy for all champions to get hit as long as they are 1.) grouped together and 2.) Brand takes the risk to get close enough to even try casting that. And to keep it more in line with mid-lane, you can make it so that if there are no other nearby targets, the unit targeted takes extra damage.

SpeedTimo2/27/2016, 5:32:46 PM3 votes

I've played around 1k Brand games in my time on League, and have gone from Silver to low Diamond playing pretty much only Brand in the midlane, and a more diverse support pool. For me, Brand has a couple of main attractions.

The first, obviously, is the ability to 100-0 a squishy at any point in the game post-6 while healthy with a well landed combo. Additionally, the passive interaction on his Q makes stuns feel earned (and increase salt when playing against a Lux, Morgana, or Xerath), and choosing to space your spells out to get the maximum damage from your passive has a good risk-reward aspect to it.

His 40% (or 45% if you want) CDR powerspike with rank 5 Q is astounding, letting him cast Q every 3.6ish seconds (TY Rylais for the easy skillshots). This puts Brand in an interesting spot, where, assuming equal skill and health in that particular game, he can 1v1 any champion that can't delete him instantly.

His ultimate is easily the most fun aspect of his kit, granting him a ridiculous amount of damage in a 1v2 situation, but giving the enemy opportunities for counter-play at the same time. However, the BEST feeling when playing Brand is when you use jungle or lane creeps for additional bounces, since it's usually something that is overlooked (especially in lower elo). Getting a perfect three bounce combo on the enemy jungler while he runs away through the river thanks to your friend the Rift Scuttler, or pumping a W-R(-E?) combo over the wall to the enemies buff, taking it and 300+ gold from the unsuspecting jungler. There are opportunities throughout the entire map to get 3 bounces in a 1v1, rewarding positioning and map awareness (the immobile mages bread and butter).

However, he's in a bit of a rough place right now. Sure, DFT makes his passive even more punishing, but the other keystones make previously poor lanes just that much harder. Itemisation against AD champions as a mage feels incredibly lacking, and building a Seekers almost always feels like a rip-off when your opponent can come back with a Hexdrinker without having to wait 1250 gold to buy the next ingredient to his finished item. The armour penetration on Maw also feels overkill to me, but of course I'm pretty biased.

Honestly, his Q and W are pretty much ideal mechanically for the type of champion he is, and E could easily be altered to give him a means to spread his passive that fits the meta a bit better (perhaps getting rid of the Point-and-Click?). As for his R, it no doubt HAS to change to give him a meaningful place on the Rift, with the RNG aspect promoting the occasional Hail Mary on a retreating opponent, and no doubt causing rage to anybody on the other side. The big issue (aside from RNG) with his ultimate is that getting 5 bounces on champions in a 1v2 is incredibly rewarding, getting 5 bounces on champions in a 5v5 is much less so. Perhaps Brand could temporarily leave his Viking Vessel to spread his flames further, perhaps his ultimate scales his Passive up (passively, while active, or maybe a bit of both). Perhaps he can throw a couple of fireballs like Xerath in his ultimate, with lower range and without losing mobility.

As stated in this post, there isn't much of a reason to pick Brand over another mid-laner, aside from champion loyalty. Lux and Xerath have very similar kits but their ultimates bring more utility to the team, and they have the advantage of higher range. Annie can burst her enemies down with fire too, but with a MUCH easier to land stun, and an ultimate that makes you question why you decided to play this game. LeBlanc makes you cry out "WHY DO YOU GET TO DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS ME WHILE FLYING THROUGH THE LANE". You get the idea.

As a final note, the best (and most Brand) feeling while playing this champion is when you've survived a teamfight that didn't quite go your way, and the enemy sets their sights on you. Their biggest threats have burned their ultimates, and you now have a group of champions running right at you. 30 seconds and a triple* later, /all chat informs you that you should play champions that require skill.

*May require Rylais and a Morello/Athenes

Cirrusstrafe4/7/2016, 10:49:00 PM3 votes

Armor melting comes to mind. Probably as an addative from the passive or something.

Imagine a mage that helps shred armor just by nature. It lines up with the theme, keeps the Brand support fantasy alive by helping the ADC out, and gives a clear reason to pick Brand as an AoE mage for a unique trait as a long term tankbuster.

Of course, we don't want him to get to Kayle levels of ridiculous free resist crippling.

nosafterburn2/27/2016, 2:29:47 PM2 votes

{quoted}

  • There’s a unique reason to pick Brand and it’s expressed in damage. Brand is a combo AoE fire man who explodes things. This will only become more true.

I don't know why but this made me ROFLMAO. Also, since brand does % max health damage why not put it on his E and cap it on minions or would that be TOO MUCH of a power spike?

ModCaptainMårvelous2/27/2016, 5:13:41 AM2 votes

"An strength"?