Boards›Dev Corner

Quick gameplay thoughts: Feb 17

RiotMeddler·2/17/2017, 5:32:59 PM·1 votes·129,731 views

Hi folks,

Another set of current thoughts here. Previous set can be found at the link below. These should be pretty frequent, but certainly won't happen every day. Length is also likely to vary a lot too. Also important to mention that these aren't remotely comprehensive - they're quick notes on some things we're thinking about, not a full list of every gameplay change going on.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/NxMaaYvf-quick-gameplay-thoughts-feb-16

Aatrox

We've got some Aatrox changes that should be hitting the PBE early next week. Those are balance/game health changes, aimed at putting Aatrox into a better place until we can get to a larger update for him at some point.

Main changes there are:

  • Shifting the passive to a windowed one (proc that grants AS/AD and revive if off CD for a duration, with some downtime). Goal is to offer periods of comparative strength and weakness (lot of the issues we've had with Aatrox's game health have been due to the nature of his revive passive)
  • Removal of % health costs, probably a flat health cost on E. One of Aatrox's big issues is that he's pretty feast or famine, stat checking people hard with a drain tank pattern or just dying. Giving him the flexibility to build defense more (health) without getting as punished by his kit for it gives some good fallback options/alternate builds.
  • Changing the W heal so it's not dependent on his AD, or as extremely different above/below 50% health. Ties in with the build path options above, with a % missing heal looking like a fairly likely mechanic.
  • More details and context next week.

Someday support possibility

One idea we've been kicking around a lot recently is that we should potentially be giving support power in non gold means more. As a position support has some pretty different gameplay. At present it also earns noticeably less gold than other positions, resulting in reduced feelings of agency. Something we're interested in exploring at some point though is giving alternate forms of power, rather than increased gold (other ways to earn specific stats or unique items?).

7.5 Visual Changes

Along with other gameplay changes in 7.5 we're also aiming to ship a number of things that should improve the visual quality of LoL in small ways. Current list (more details coming next week) looks like:

  • Better communication around the recall state for champions/skins without recall animations
  • Adjusted tooltip color scheme in game, slight layout tweaks
  • Corrections to make certain spell indicators always draw over the top of terrain regardless of height differences (should always see Panth R or Zyra R for example)
  • Making more spell indicators not show in spectator or to allies (e.g. the ring around Varus E on the ground's meaningful to enemies and Varus, but allies and spectators don't need that level of precision)
  • A quick sizing pass on a few champions and skins (adjusting outliers up/down to where they should be relative to other champions' height).

Edge of Night

We're going to see if we can pull a nerf for Edge of Night forwards into 7.4, or at least do a low risk hotfix the same day 7.4 hits. Urgency on that feels high enough at this point we don't think we should wait another patch. Most likely changes (still being discussed) are increasing the CD again and lowering the AD on it. Possible whatever changes are made will be temporary as well if the conclusion during 7.5 development is a different nerf is better long term.

232 Comments

Sevixys2/17/2017, 6:36:22 PM37 votes

#Aatrox

IT'S HAPPENING!!! MEDDLER MENTIONED AATROX! AATROX MAINS REJOICE! Aatrox item 3070 _ (Saraste here sup guyz)_

Coolkipp2/17/2017, 6:54:02 PM37 votes

I currently play aatrox more critically strike based and have had a fair amount of success with it (manged to get up to d3 before tilting) Example clips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ce0fdSUHrw

Please meddler, don't make aatrox a straight tank. It'd suck to see the ad ratio on w heal disappear. A hybrid scaling between missing hp and your ad could work, like gangplank's oranges.

I think he has a really unique opportunity for his w to function with crit on the heal and damage portions. It could really increase his synergy with items and make him a force to be reckoned with mid/late game while encouraging players to pursue a more dps focused build with him. This would make him squishier and therefore easier to handle, reducing the feast/famine effect of his drain tanking. As he can still get knocked out by burst.

After my time playing him for the last 3 years or so and the game for about 5-6, these are some things I believe are currently needed and would like your response on how possible they are.

Base health increased to 576 from 538 Base health per level increased to 87 from 85 (Total hp @18 changed to 2142 from 1983)

Passive: -Friendly buffs (such as maw of malmortius, ardent censer, w proc) are now retained -Being knocked into passive by a displacement spell no longer allows aatrox to auto attack while reviving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=theJDYMmDpE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHxy-zfapM

Q: -Epicenter now does 60% bonus damage -cooldown lowered to 16 / 14.5 / 13 / 11.5 / 10 from 16/15/14/13/12 -Immune to displacements during the rising portion -bugfix* Can now be used properly right after being displaced
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKD13v6lHI -bugfix* Can now reliably traverse terrain instead of sometimes cancelling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtkOhx2ouxo -QOL change to stop your q from redirecting from the opposite side of the wall to the spot on the side you currently are on if you're just barely out of range. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIZ-j_P0DEQ

W: -Stored W proc no longer lost on revive

E: -cooldown lowered to 8 at all levels -Cast time scales with attack speed -Now shreds 5/10/15/20/25% armor+mr on damaged targets for 5 seconds or -Slow reduced to 1.5 seconds at all ranks, auto attacking a marked target will increase the slow duration by 1 second up to 5 seconds or entirely reworked

R: -Can now be used without interrupting movement or auto attack -Bonus attack range increased to 250 from 175 (maybe a little ambitious) -Duration changed to 9/12/15 seconds from 12 -Duration pauses during passive a la master yi w buff

These are just some things I think could be explored when reworking him:

R: -Upon killing an enemy champion, aatrox is driven by his urge for the perfect massacre, cleansing him of all debuffs and increasing the duration of massacre by 3 seconds.

W: -Both heal and damage portions can now critically strike

Jeddy0172/17/2017, 5:38:32 PM15 votes

Finally some Aatrox love.

Sahn Uzal2/17/2017, 5:34:59 PM12 votes

Edge of Night

We're going to see if we can pull a nerf for Edge of Night forwards into 7.4, or at least do a low risk hotfix the same day 7.4 hits. Urgency on that feels high enough at this point we don't think we should wait another patch. Most likely changes (still being discussed) are increasing the CD again and lowering the AD on it. Possible whatever changes are made will be temporary as well if the conclusion during 7.5 development is a different nerf is better long term.

Now that's what I call great news! Keep it up!

SaltyKracka2/17/2017, 5:50:08 PM11 votes

Aatrox changes EoN nerfed sooner rather than later

Praise the Sun!

Keevalroy2/17/2017, 5:48:17 PM10 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox

We've got some Aatrox changes that should be hitting the PBE early next week. Those are balance/game health changes, aimed at putting Aatrox into a better place until we can get to a larger update for him at some point.

Main changes there are:

  • Shifting the passive to a windowed one (proc that grants AS/AD and revive if off CD for a duration, with some downtime). Goal is to offer periods of comparative strength and weakness (lot of the issues we've had with Aatrox's game health have been due to the nature of his revive passive)
  • Removal of % health costs, probably a flat health cost on E. One of Aatrox's big issues is that he's pretty feast or famine, stat checking people hard with a drain tank pattern or just dying. Giving him the flexibility to build defense more (health) without getting as punished by his kit for it gives some good fallback options/alternate builds.
  • Changing the W heal so it's not dependent on his AD, or as extremely different above/below 50% health. Ties in with the build path options above, with a % missing heal looking like a fairly likely mechanic.
  • More details and context next week.

This. This right here is what I've been begging Riot for since season 5. This is the type of "skeleton kit" drafting I was talking about where there's ideas of what the kit is going to look like are posted somewhere where players can respond and react to it before it's shipped to the PBE and we're too late to try and stop you. Once this kit starts being fleshed out, can we expect to see a rough draft (passive, Q, W, E, R) with approximated damage / scaling so if there's something glaringly wrong that you missed we can point it out before it's shipped to the PBE?

Regardless, I'm happy something like this is being done. Shocking as that may be, I am happy from time to time and do give praise when it's deserved. Now then, about those keystones...?

hudzell2/17/2017, 6:38:27 PM9 votes

FINALLY SOME AATROX CHANGES! THANK YOU RITO GAME

Akenero2/17/2017, 5:40:12 PM9 votes

Do you ever think you'll reach a point where champions have healthy kits but look severely outdated? Take ezreal for example, good kit, definitely room to improve, but also very reliable and flashy. Or do you believe every champion requires changes in the future in one way or another?

Risk of Fate2/17/2017, 5:43:42 PM9 votes

Someday support possibility

One idea we've been kicking around a lot recently is that we should potentially be giving support power in non gold means more. As a position support has some pretty different gameplay. At present it also earns noticeably less gold than other positions, resulting in reduced feelings of agency. Something we're interested in exploring at some point though is giving alternate forms of power, rather than increased gold (other ways to earn specific stats or unique items?).

I really loved the idea of something like Gangplank where he got ultimate upgrades for last hitting and think that could be an interesting concept to expand on more. That or more items that can get charged up like Tear of the Goddess or Manamune based on abilities (think more shielding makes your shield bigger. Not saying something like super duper overpowered, but would be neat to see).

Whenever I supported, it always felt I was roughly building the same stuff every game regardless of the situation which does not really make for a fun experience. Having a couple of different options to deal with situations would be nice, say maybe I want map control yet don't want to sacrifice slots for an active that I might never use, ie Locket. Having that on a passive form in the way of Duskblade would be neat which leads into I would love love LOVE less actives and more passive items. After about the third one I buy, it becomes an extreme hassle to navigate and use all of them. Granted I could change my keybindings, still less focus on managing cooldowns of them and more focus on my team would be very great.

Just my thoughts, figured I would share being an Ex-Support main for 2 seasons.

Robert Jacobs2/17/2017, 8:05:09 PM8 votes

So, Riot says several times that the Skarner rework in the juggernaut update wasn't a success at all, insted it was a complete failure, cause Skarner wasnt a Full tank oriented champ, heavy and immobile. So many of us SkarnerMains started to figure out if Skarner is in this roaster update, cause this should be the "Tank and avanguards"Update, and the skarner champion title is "The crystal vanguard" so that's make sense to me.. No one want another Skarner rework, just a adjustment to his scaling on his Q and W , like he was before with base dmg and base shield value.. the lack of base value limit the possible Skarner build path imo. So is Skarner gonna be in this update? even in the most irrelevant form? skarner need to see the light of the shurim sun once again

hudzell2/17/2017, 6:48:40 PM8 votes

The 3 changes I really want as an Aatrox one trick are

  • 175 attack range
  • Immunity to CC during ascension of Q
  • Greivous wounds immunity during ultimate

And I will be completely happy.

Spideraxe2/17/2017, 6:22:45 PM6 votes

Do you guys still want ChampUp to look at Aatrox some more during Diver update

Otso2/17/2017, 6:53:12 PM5 votes

In on the of the Aatrox Mains chats we're talking about these changes and some of the things we are most concerned/ interested in would be a little more clarity on the idea of the passive, we've long wanted something that doesn't feel as bad as reviving with half the attack speed we had before going down, so knowing some of the ideas going into that a little more would be great.

The other thing that sticks out to us is that without changing Q (given what these changes seem to be aimed at pushing him more to a tankier build) he will be a a tank with no reliable cc and is easily countered by grievous wounds, is there any plan to change his interaction with grievous wounds effects. Currently it just feels like the worst experience ever when a lane opponent buys an item for 800 that has no counterplay and ruins him pretty hard.

Interested to hear some clarification and thoughts. Thanks for your time. Aatrox

Please Die2/17/2017, 6:35:23 PM5 votes

HEIL AATROX

Trashinshin2/17/2017, 6:55:19 PM5 votes

What are your plans for aatrox's playstyle, right now he is a melee carry splitpush flanker. Are you gonne rework him into a broing engage drain tank?

vhearts2/17/2017, 7:32:28 PM5 votes

Mr. Meddler, has Riot considered creating a new stat that would allow supports to scale or fulfill their utility fantasies without creating imbalance for AP casters?

Something like "Utility Power", which various utility skills could have ratios for (eg: Lulu W speedup would scale with Utility Power at a higher ratio than AP) and you could give items like Athenes UP instead of AP (and in higher amounts) without creating balance nightmares for mages.

Right now supports don't seem to really get to use their utility AP scalings. I always end up building Iron Solari/Redemption because those items are needed if you play utility supports. I understand you can't add AP to those items... but maybe instead of "+10% heal/shields" you could have "+Utility Power", which could affect heal/shields, utility scalings, but NOT damage calculations? I feel like Utility Power when strategically placed on support-like items would give you the ability to give more power to supports on a budget without breaking the game and having supports played in every position.

Illâoi Evê Siôn2/17/2017, 6:56:45 PM4 votes

Are we going to get another Health-Magic Resistance item during the Tank update? I wouldn't even mind it building out of Spectre's Cowl anymore.

Arkadije952/17/2017, 10:37:43 PM4 votes

Aatrox changes? Seriously? You are not joking? This year right? Next week as in next week this year? THANK YOU MEDDLER AND EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED IN THIS, THANK YOU SO MUCH. AATROX MAINS REJOICE.

Snakerino2/19/2017, 9:42:03 PM3 votes

I know you're giving Cassiopeia a new tail animation but seriously, it's been four years since you have given her a skin and, to be honest, they're all pretty lackluster.

DarkinPrime2/18/2017, 3:26:30 AM3 votes

I guess 2 years later is better than never.

Galiö2/17/2017, 7:50:40 PM2 votes

I was actually expecting galio rework this coming patch. So I got the patch coming up and the patch after to still enjoy my baby and pray to the riot gods that his W stays intact.

Linna Excel2/17/2017, 9:04:50 PM1 votes

Removal of % health costs

Could you do this to soraka as well sometime down the road even if that means she'll need a new W?

Something we're interested in exploring at some point though is giving alternate forms of power

Like an XP item?

darkdill2/18/2017, 6:51:51 PM1 votes

Meddler, have you ever considered changing Edge of Night so the Spell Shield has a shorter duration? 10 seconds on it feels oppressive when you're the one being attacked, because you know one of your spells will fail and you simply CAN'T wait it out or you're dead. And there's no way you're going to be able to exploit that whole "channel cancel" bit because, unless your opponent is brainless, he'll never expose himself until after the channel is complete.

It isn't the cooldown that's the problem; it's the duration. 10 seconds feels like forever in a fight.

Stay Cushy2/17/2017, 7:58:14 PM1 votes

@Meddler any news on the Rek'sai mini rework?