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[DEV BLOG] Marksman Update in the 2016 Season

RiotEzreal··1 votes·31,651 views

Champion Update team here! While you’ve probably already seen the big changes due for marksmen (if you haven’t, check it all out here http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/site/2016-season-update/preseason.html ), we wanted to set aside a moment for a deeper dive. The new marksmen update comes hot on the heels of the juggernauts update ( http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/gameplay-update-juggernauts ) and, with so much changing so fast, we think it’s a good idea to pause for a more philosophical reflection.

But first, a quick look back.

When we set out to tackle the juggernauts, we were working with a whole lot of unknowns. This was a set of champions that didn’t have much in the way of strategic identity. By really highlighting their strengths, we gave them clear ways to succeed (and fail) in an unfamiliar environment. Making something from nothing is a really interesting space to work in and we think we’ve achieved our philosophical goal with many of them. The tricky bit, however, was calibrating the juggernaut’s appropriate weaknesses against their raw power.

With marksmen, we have a few advantages. First, because the class as a whole already has a clear function and they’re played in pretty much every game of League, we have a much stronger understanding of their capabilities and expectations. Additionally, because the core weakness of every marksman is “blow ‘em up,” they have some pretty clear checks in place when it comes to solo-carrying games.

Looking forward, our vision remains consistent: We want to give each updated champion a unique reason to be brought to a game, and we want each champion to feel different whether playing against, as, or with. For some, this means sharpening what they already do well, or should do well. For others, it means finding new elements that make them feel special. We want you to have a reason to pick Graves over Lucian, and vice-versa, outside of just dealing more damage.

Our additional goal is to ensure basic attacks between marksmen are as differentiated as possible. This is a new goal that’s very important for this group in particular, given how reliant they are on basic attacks.

Let’s take a closer look at some of the changes. We’ll be throwing out a high-level overview of the updates before we go a little deeper on the philosophy behind them, in case you haven’t checked out the site.

Graves “This calls for the ol’ double-barreled ‘Hello.’”

Graves’ double-barreled shotgun is one of the most distinctive weapons in the marksman arsenal. However, this weapon was underutilized as a kind of mid-range, burst, poke, cone spell. So we doubled-down on the classic shotgun fantasy. Now Graves’ basic attacks fire four rounds (eight on a crit!) in a cone in front of him, dealing damage and knocking back minions. Graves has tradeoffs for this unique mechanic, as he has to reload after firing two rounds (but can quickly reload via Quickdraw), and his basic attacks can be body-blocked.

Because we basically pushed Graves’ Q onto his basic attack, we decided to give him a new Q in the form of End of the Line, where he fires out an explosive canister, leaving behind a trail of gunpowder. That canister then explodes after a few seconds (or immediately on colliding with a wall) and detonates the gunpowder for additional damage.

With the defensive buff from Quickdraw and his incredibly high threat on close-range targets, Graves is the kind of marksman you want to bring when enemies have a lot of backline access (see: diving assassins). The tradeoff here is that Graves loses out on a lot of long-range target selection that other marksmen have, since his basic attacks can’t go over enemies.

The changes focuses on pushing Graves’ identity as a close-range, brawling marksman, and we’re excited to see how he does once he gets into the fight.

Quinn “Justice takes wing.”

Despite its innate coolness factor, Quinn's old ultimate still had problems. It forced her into overwhelming danger, often leading to trades at the cost of her life (not a great deal!). We are re-imagining her ultimate to play up its tag-team, high-speed nature: Valor now swoops down to carry Quinn, giving her massive out-of-combat mobility. This sharpens Quinn’s identity as a rapid-response marksman. Quinn can aid skirmishes in the jungle, swap lanes to help ganks, respond to split-pushes (or split-push herself), and make it back in time to help with a team fight. Need eyes on Baron? Send Quinn to scout it out!

Corki “Bombs away!”

Corki, the Daring Bombardier, hasn’t been very true to his title. Optimal play for Corki was to play it safe and poke from a distance; he lacked the tools to make big plays. We decided to fix this in an… explosive way. With the addition of Special Delivery - a single-time upgrade to Valkyrie that amps up the damage, range, and disruption of the ability - Corki needs to focus on what sort of decisive action he’ll take to capitalize on the skill. It won’t be easy, but the reward is huge.

Finally, to further push Corki’s identity as the magic damage marksman, his auto-attacks now deal split magic/physical damage and his gatling gun shreds both resists. This allows teams to build around Corki being the primary magic damage dealer, something rather unique in the strategic space of marksmen.

Miss Fortune “Fortune doesn’t favor fools.”

Miss Fortune has been synonymous with the famed WOMBO COMBO since she first strutted onto the Rift, though much less so after frequent nerfs to Bullet Time. We wanted the WOMBO back, so we increased her ult’s duration by 50% and increased the number of bullet waves as the game progresses by… a lot.

As for her new passive, we drew a lot of inspiration from Double Up. In lane, Miss Fortune draws tons of strength from her Q, especially in a 2v2 scenario where she can put a lot of pressure on both targets if they don’t position properly. These changes are our way of doubling… down on that thematic, with more rewards for precise target juggling and positioning (the precision is important as well, as there are champions like Varus or Twitch who excel at dumping out a lot of group AoE damage).

Caitlyn “Meet the long gun of the law.”

For Caitlyn, we had to ask ourselves, “How much further can we push the sharpshooter fantasy?” The answer: Like, a lot further. By giving Caitlyn massive range on any enemy she can net or trap, we’re emphasizing her sharpshooting strengths. Giving Yordle Snap Trap an ammo system amplifies Cait’s natural ability to create choke points, while also improving her ability to dominate territory around objectives. The choice between spreading traps for surprise ambushes and setting up lines of defense gives you different ways to capitalize on Cait’s role as League’s #1 sniper elite.

Kog’Maw “Feeding time!”

Everyone’s favorite Void puppy just got even more adorabler. Kog’Maw already has a familiar identity in his “Protect the Kog” team comp, but we felt we could amplify it while also separating him from other tank busters. Now, Kog’s Bio-Arcane Barrage doubles his attack speed and attack speed cap, up to five attacks per second (!!!). This makes him the quintessential attack speed “proc” champion, a low-mobility machine-gun of death. It does wonders for creating a unique itemization path and, of course, it makes him look way cooler.

As a quick note for Living Artillery: Changing the damage from raw poke to execution allows Kog to differentiate himself from other long-range pokers. Kog by himself might not make for the perfect poke composition, but if you combine him with enough additional pressure, he can pick off fleeing enemies while also becoming a central damage turret for his team.


So those are our rough thoughts on the update. We’d love to hear yours as you test the changes in action (soon), but these, in tandem with the marksmen itemization update, should bring some interesting changes to the class as a whole.

103 Comments

Hellioning7 votes

Time to never play Quinn and Valor again.

Oh, wait, my bad. Just Quinn.

RiotEzreal5 votes

Quinn just became one of my favorite champions, period. Her new ability to roam across the map as an Marksman gave me something I never knew I always wanted. Not to mention, mid Quinn is a BEAST!

Hellioning6 votes

Well, I'm glad at least one of us is happy.

SoundChaosDebug5 votes

R.I.P valor only high attack speed melting buildings

RiotEzreal2 votes

Fair enough, I used to build Blitzcrank with Tri-Force as a primary tower pusher (it was beta, cut me slack).

ModWulf Helhammer6 votes

Can you more in depth explain why you changed Quinn the way she was?

You say it makes her a better split pusher, but to be honest, it doesn't help with that at all. Look at some of the top tier split pushers in the game right now: Tryndamere and Gangplank. Both have good sustain, strong damage and dueling capabilities, but most importantly, a way to rescue themselves when they get collapsed on by too many people to handle: Tryndamere has a strong slow, untargeted mobility, and an ability that literally is "can't kill me". GP has slows (barrels and ult) and an ability that both heals a good amount and saves from CC. Quinn? She has a mild slow and an escape where in order to actually use it, you first need to escape the enemy. She lost the damage mitigation that was put into her kit from the start of her entire design.

You say in the post that she can better counter split pushers herself, but you took away the advantages she had for having low range, while giving only situational benefits in return.

You gave more MS on an ult that was already one of the fastest in the game, but had a price for it, so that when you used it poorly, you felt it (kinda like if you use a Zilean ult at the wrong time, you are smacked with a hefty cooldown.) Now it's just a worse version of a teleport, but has nearly all her power loaded into it so that Quinn becomes a ball of stats champ: she will either be powerful and OP, or will have her stats nerfed so that she can't do anything but fly around.

You say that Quinn's old ult forced her into danger. That's what's called high risk, high reward. You know, the thing that tends to be a good aspect of a kit, giving power when used correctly, but punishing when used poorly (like if you use a Xerath ult when people are right on top of you, it's not going to go well). When tag team was used correctly, then it was incredibly rewarding, often times able to completely turn a game around.

I'm not sure you guys at Riot understand the meaning of a tag team. It's not when the two people get in together, that's called a duo. A tag team is when the person swaps out with their partner, who has as much power as the other, and let's them fight until they swap out again.

None of these points so far have been explained by any Rioter, and it would be greatly appreciated if they would be.c

Linna Excel4 votes

I really hate MF's new passive. The old W passive was so much better, I don't know why y'all didn't just make that her passive straight up. I think she'll lose too much dueling potential from it and I've got no clue how much this will hurt her jungle. And yes I have jungled with her before.

I guess if hurricane triggers her passive, that'd be okay, but as is, I don't like it at all.

RiotEzreal2 votes

I can understand that feeling, whenever we refocus a champion's design we will have to take power away from one area in order to place it into another. In MF's case, we certainly took down her dueling potential a notch. Though in doing so, we've given her a much more solidified role in the aoe carry. She has even more incentives to pass damage around to multiple targets.

Ps. You are a badass for running jungle MF, how the heck did you do it?

Baron Von Bangin3 votes

When you spoke of understanding what an adc's role and play pattern is, how did that come into play when messing with Miss Fortune? The typical play pattern for an adc is to hit the safe target over and over, but with this new passive she seems punished for focusing her damage with auto attacks. How much power did this new passive drain from her damage if she's not utilizing it? Is it just a bonus or a must?

RiotEzreal3 votes

One of the problems with ADCs was that they all had the exact same play pattern. Part of our update is focusing on changing it up a bit. For example, Graves reallllly wants to get in close, Kog'Maw needs to plan ahead of time for his damage window, etc. For MF, she can still certainly get off a ton of damage on a single target, it just isn't as free as before. Her bonus attack speed is actually far larger than before, just for a far shorter window of time. So now she chooses between short duels and long form target swapping.

Baron Von Bangin2 votes

So will her passive apply to her abilities too? Like rewarding her for using them in a way that she's actually pelting multiple targets? Or is it strictly limited to her auto attacks (and maybe Q...)?

And I still am rather curious about how much this new passive drains from her autos vs live.

RiotEzreal2 votes

Her passive works with her Q ability, leads to a great Q --> AA pattern (as long as there is a second target for your Q).

Baron Von Bangin1 votes

So say I'm shooting at an "untapped" (what is this, Magic?) target with Q, will that enemy and the next one it bounces to both get hit with the passive damage? Will they both be marked? Or can I go back to autoing the first enemy hit by Q and then effectively pop the passive twice?

Sorry for all the questions about MFs new passive, but all the stuff I've read and seen have been a little vague on the specifics.

Hellioning1 votes

Your first target gets hit by Q. They take tap damage.

Your next target gets hit by Q. They take tap damage.

You auto the first one. They take tap damage again.

Baron Von Bangin2 votes

So unless the tap damage is MASSIVE this is going to be an overall nerf to any fight longer than 2 autos it seems.

Hellioning1 votes

It is fairly big. It definitely makes the second hit of Q really powerful.

The biggest concern is how often you can afford to switch targets every auto or so.

RiotEzreal2 votes

Hellioning nailed it with the tap flow.

Also, let's not forget that there are often more than two targets in an area. MF can bounce her targets around a lane or a team fight.

Hellioning2 votes

The issue is less 'does she have more then one thing to auto' and more 'can she afford to not auto a particular target'?

If you try to auto the support instead of the ADC fighting you to reset your passive and you just barely leave the ADC alive, that's gonna be annoying.

Linna Excel4 votes

I don't do it often, but you start with a point in W this season and then go devourer into something like a bork since it's cheap. Starting W is key because of how the damage stacks up with every hit. Don't pick it into someone who can counter-jungle well or if your team doesn't have CC. Her movespeed makes her a good choice if you feel like you need to split push.

I mainly pick her when I want to do something different and have fun or if I need to bring damage since I'm not really a Yi player.

ItemsGuy2 votes

{quoted}

I can understand that feeling, whenever we refocus a champion's design we will have to take power away from one area in order to place it into another. In MF's case, we certainly took down her dueling potential a notch. Though in doing so, we've given her a much more solidified role in the aoe carry. She has even more incentives to pass damage around to multiple targets.

Ps. You are a badass for running jungle MF, how the heck did you do it?

MF's passive had the same problem for me that Graves's did (and to a smaller extent, Kog's W), in that it made a basic mechanic of the game much more complex than it needs to be, but not in a way that couldn't have been much more streamlined and user-friendly if incorporated into an active ability. In short, it's just too damn tedious.

To elaborate, imagine a version of the game where Draven had to catch an axe with every basic attack.

Graves's old Q satisfied the "shotgun fantasy" of the character pretty well and in a way that a delayed, impact-less, awkwardly-shaped double nuke can't really compete with--it wasn't something he could do all the time, but when he did it, and when he did it up close, it hurt. But now, having one character have basic attack projectiles that can be dodged and body-blocked while running on an ammo system, at all times, (rather than, say, as the result of a basic attack modifier, or a much simpler passive that deals cone-shaped AoE damage in addition to launching a standard ranged attack projectile to get the same effect of "if this guy gets close to you, it's not gonna be fun") makes access to a very simple and visceral gameplay fantasy much more complicated than it should be.

With the MF passive update, the intent there was pretty obvious--MF's kit generally wants her to be dealing AP scaling physical/AD scaling magic/AD scaling physical/AP scaling magic damage to as many people as possible, so letting her deal more damage to multiple people at the cost of raw dueling power might not make her feel like more of a bounty hunter, but at least it would give her consistent gameplay and a niche amongst Marksmen (Markspeople?). The solution here, however, was to force her to switch beween targets with every basic attack, which combined with manually kiting due to no in-combat repositioning ability (ie. Arcane Shift) and an ability that boosts her rate of attack (something that also feels bad on Draven), leads to a lot of twitch-action right-clicking for a mildly intangible result! This, in combination of her nigh-unusable Q, mostly makes her feel like a lamer and less innately powerful version of Lucian as far as the dual gun fantasy goes. If Lucian doesn't have to double right-click every time he wants to use his passive, I'm sure there's a more user-friendly way to make her feel like she's shooting two guns really, really fast.

Kog'Maw is pretty simple--letting them break the attackspeed cap (by doubling their attackspeed and approximately halving the power of individual shots) makes the player feel like they're attacking really, really fast, but in a way that impedes actual gameplay--in this case, moving between attacks is a huge pain in the ass. If the desire was simply to make the attacks feel really rapid-fire, Ashe's Q is a successful application of it (lots of little projectiles, lots of little numbers popping up, but still functioning as single attacks). If the desire was to make the attacks feel really rapid-fire while limiting their accessibility to when Kog'Maw doesn't want to move around a lot, changing it into a targeted channel that reduces movespeed (Azmodan' laser thing in Heroes of the Storm is an application that comes to mind) could've been a much more elegant approach design-wise. When I hover over an ability and have to read a laundry list of the ways it breaks the basic mechanics of the game, it hurts a little!

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

About the Runaan's question - have some inconsistencies with it been fixed? Does it apply Bio-Arcane Barrage now?

RiotEzreal2 votes

Bio-Arcane Barrage increases the range at which you apply Runaan's.

Hexten2 votes

{quoted}

Bio-Arcane Barrage increases the range at which you apply Runaan's.

With better on-hit magic damage itemisation available, with Gunblade now being able to heal off turrets and structures, will this be abusive in some way, especially for ADCs that could have some weird AP build?

LadyParallel1 votes

as you said "we will have to take power away from one area in order to place it into another". did this apply to jinx? because giving her power on her passive wasnt necessary it was pretty good already and it doesnt make it any more fun than it was before. in fact, jinx mains love mostly her ult and her attack speed most of us are nearly obsessed with her rockets and their uses. did u really have to nerf them so much just to buff something that didnt need a buff? i cant speak for all jinx mains... true. but please try asking the ones who are in love with this character if they really find it more fun to play her with a new unnecessarily buffed passive or with her old rockets speed. im pretty sure most will tell u they prefered the rocket speed and gladily will give up on the new passive to have it back... dont take away wat makes her so amazing. i u wanna nerf her nerf something else. just not on such a key point of who she is in the game and specially not just to make her passive more "fun" and make her more "unique". shes always been very unique...

Earl Eulrich1 votes

Ps. You are a badass for running jungle MF, how the heck did you do it?

she has great base-stats and scales fairly well with a low economy-build - though i guess your rework kinda shuts that down a tad with more reliance on scaling-crit-builds. Other marksmen that are still sort of viable junglers are Quinn (though she really needs to snowball hard with the terrible scaling currently), Caiitlyn (don´t gank laners, gank turrets!), Lucian (pretty similar to mf, though the nerf series really hit him hard), twitch (the classic, though he really has it tough early since the kiting changes) and Ezreal (actually the best jungle-marksmen, can even be supportive with blue-build).

While I don´t have high hopes that keeping their off-build as junglers viable is your primary concern with the marksmen-update...i still donßt really understand why you made it so much harder for makrsmen to jungle with all the changing to kiting monsters in the first place - they never had been dominating in any way and allways had a more high-risk, medium reward thing to it.

I mean yea, there´s Kindred...but it just doesn´t feel right to just facetank camps down with her compared to kite-jungling with a champ that faced certain death in the jungle when he misexecuted the dance.

Mimy3 votes

I love all your works (Including Teemo ) shhhh xD

Are you really turning tristana into an AD Caster? I'm slightly worried how that may affect her... Will she still be weaker midgame? If this more of a nerf to her?

will she be stronger midgame but weaker later?

She was one of my first love champions so Of course I'm gonna get worried.. she's my main ADC.. xD

RiotEzreal2 votes

We're cleaning up her play pattern, while focusing on improving her visceral feel. The biggest impact comes around making her E both feel and act better, is it now more core to her play pattern. She is very much a character that focuses on choosing her target, and focusing them down.

Mimy1 votes

Are you still able to place Tristana 's bombs on turrets or did you remove that?

If all of her abilities adds a charge to a bomb, what would you say would be a good pattern to making it explode?

Liek if I put do... E.. and then Q get 2 autos in.. and than W onto them? Would it be good to W onto people? If it resets after It Blows up at max.. I will now be able to W away?

Sounds pretty sweet..

RiotEzreal2 votes

You can certainly still bomb the heck out of turrets, she's a mad bomber after all!

Comboing diving in to diving out is one of the most fun plays for Trist now, hope you like it.

Mimy2 votes

Comboing diving in to diving out is one of the most fun plays for Trist now

Now that she can almost pretty much jump around if you play her right...

Do I sense a cottontail Tristana? xD

I'm joking.. But it'd be cute to jump around like a bunny.

RiotEzreal5 votes

BRILLIANT!

Mandaari2 votes

Can you elaborate on why you went with some of the other smaller ADC changes, like the changes to Ashe's Q? I'm happy to see that change, I'm just curious on your thought process.

RiotEzreal1 votes

Would love to.

Unsure as to which Q change you are talking about, though I'll chat about the main two. We made it only castable at 5 stacks since the ability was didn't propose a good choice. Either you cast it well at 5 stacks and got a fantastic benefit, or you cast it below 5 and went home sad. For the cooldown removal, we really wanted to let players push the limits of the spell. If they were able to keep it up all the time, then they deserved to be rewarded!

Meªt2 votes

I don't think adorabler is a word Ezreal. Thus I cannot believe that you a credible source of this information.

RiotEzreal1 votes

I discovered a new word! I'm da best!

Meªt3 votes

You belong in a museum.

RiotEzreal2 votes

...I know...

Stellafreyja2 votes

The gutting of MF's base attack damage is going to hurt her so badly. I feel that she's going to struggle during the first few days of the patch. I've seen so many people on the PBE complain about Love Tap. It's an interesting idea though, I'll give you guys that. (Also love the fact that Strut goes up to 100 MS)

RiotEzreal2 votes

Glad to hear that you like it, and rest assured, if we nerfed her base damage by too much then we will likely look at it again in the future.

Stellafreyja11 votes

While we're at it, a lot of people have been wanting Miss Fortune's Double Up to scale with attack speed so it's easier to weave in with her auto attacks. Can that please happen?

JeffreyPagels2 votes

You guys really tried hard to gut kalista, nerfing her two biggest items (Runaans and Blade of The Ruined King)...

Bonipherus1 votes

Runaans into statikk shiv now. crits and constant lightning

AlldaySkandi1 votes

and no lifesteal :/

Toastey1 votes

RIP AP Kog

LankPants2 votes

From what I've seen the best Kog build on the PBE is item 3115 item 3124 item 3091 item 3153 item 3003 item 3006

Not quite AP Kog, but somewhere close.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

That's what I carried my games with when I was lvl 20, but with Runaan's instead of Botrk (no tooltip ever told me that it didn't apply his W =.=)

LankPants1 votes

but with Runaan's instead of Botrk (no tooltip ever told me that it didn't apply his W =.=)

It does, you could honestly use Runaan's over BotRK or Seraphs on this build and it would still be good.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

On live it doesn't. On PBE, according to Ezreal, it just grants bonus range to Runaan's bolts.

MrBAHM1 votes

Are there any plans to make Lucian's Q animation faster?

In my opinion the animation really hurts his late game hard.

RiotEzreal3 votes

No plans, but likely a good thing to look into.

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