Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 5

RiotMeddler·7/5/2019, 3:15:57 PM·1 votes·149,311 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Why we turn practice tool off sometimes

As you might have noticed we've had practice tool turned off for some periods of time on some servers recently. We do that in periods of really high player count because it allows us to get more players into games. The amount of server time a game takes is composed of two things. The first is a cost for the game itself existing, which covers things like processing time for minion AI/movement, tracking the states of things like buildings, reporting information post game to match history etc. The second is an additional processing cost per player that's in the game. What that effectively means is that players in practice tool games take up more server capacity than players in other game modes. Turning practice tool off, while frustrating for those who want to use it, can therefore allow more people to play at once.

Example with numbers (made up, but they get the idea across):

  • Flat cost of a game - 5 units
  • Additional cost per player - 1 unit
  • Total cost for a practice tool game = 6 units (for 1 player)
  • Total cost for an SR game = 15 units (1.5 units per player)
  • Trade off for 15 units is therefore allowing 2.5 people to play in practice tool or 10 people to play on SR

TFT and integration with other systems

Now that we've got TFT available for wider play one of our next focuses is looking at where and how it should or shouldn't interact with other game systems. Making it so event passes let you earn tokens in TFT now too is an example of the sort of integration we're talking about there. Other systems we're talking about include things like Honor (does it make sense in a FFA with minimal chat to turn Honor on?) and Leveling (current leveling system isn't well suited to TFT play given rewards and things it unlocks, but adaptations could be made). We're particularly interested in addressing situations where players want to spend their time playing a mixture of regular LoL and TFT but the way we've currently got things set up makes that feel a bit awkward or punishing.


Soft Champion Counters in 9.14

We're currently testing some balance changes to a range of champs that give them a bit more of an edge against specific types of enemy champ or make them a bit more vulnerable to specific enemies. Goal there is to add a bit of extra weakness to champions who could do with another way to deal with them without going so far as to make it so a game is overly decided in champ select. Expectation is that blind picking certain champs should become a bit riskier, especially in organized play where teams are more likely to counterpick.

Changes we're currently experimenting with under that philosophy:

  • Ahri charm stops dashes in progress (anti mobility niche)
  • Akali's W is a standard invisibility (gives her more vulnerability to enemies with reveals on their kits)
  • Blitzcrank R and Renekton W destroy shields on the target before dealing damage (anti powerful shield or shield stacking niche)
  • Cassiopeia and Poppy have their anti mobility effects buffed, with no minimum cast range on Cass W and Poppy W grounding+slowing enemies it stops mid dash
  • Kat R and Kled Q have a stronger form of Grievous Wounds at 60% reduction (anti sustain niche)
  • Leona W has flat damage reduction (makes her a stronger pick into DoT champs and others with effects that deal a small amount of damage many times like Kai'Sa Q)

No guarantees those exact changes go through yet of course, still investigating. Hope is careful use of tools like this help us balance some champs, both those with said tools and those they're stronger against, better for both regular play and pro at the same time.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

247 Comments

Kelg7/5/2019, 3:26:59 PM54 votes

Also please don't give renekton that shield breaking mechanic, the champ is already very strong, and offers no counterplay as is. This will just give him more one-sided matchups and make him super annoying to deal with if your champ at all uses shielding.

Kelg7/5/2019, 3:24:32 PM19 votes

Will we see Ap bruiser items any times soon? I've been waiting forever for these. item 3151 item 3116 the only options and are somewhat boring, and offer little tankiness. We need something like item 3053 item 3812 item 3071 for AP bruisers such as Mordekaiser Swain Singed Rumble Sylas . Any plans for them?

Arkaidan7/5/2019, 4:22:41 PM14 votes

This highly surpasses my definition of "soft counter", it seems more like a "i picked this champion and unless you are 3 leagues down i win". You are literally adding SPECIFIC features which aim to shut down a certain category of champions. Thats not a soft counter, thats a champion entirely designed to fuck a specific butthole

You are just enforcing a counterpick meta that already exists, and it sucks.

AIQ7/5/2019, 3:31:07 PM11 votes

Hey Meddler, could you let us know if you can answer this or not?

With Warwick he has a slew of Gameplay bugs affecting him ATM especially on his W. Are these being looked into?

Since Shyvana lost the Vote. Is it possible to get 3 QOL buffs? The Elder Drake Scaling (I don't know if you remember that.) Total AD on her W ratio so AP/On-hit Shyvana is more seamless. And Gaining fury while dead. Shyvana is the only champion who's ult Cooldown stops while dead.

Oh and how's jungle seen on a "Riot" level? Thanks

limebuster7/5/2019, 3:22:24 PM11 votes

I really love the changes you’re testing, it seems a lot better than straight buffing champs with number changes, please do more if successful! Maybe some for adc’s :)

Frog goes moo7/5/2019, 4:31:56 PM9 votes

any reason why ahri's being buffed? She's been S tier for like 2 seasons now.

Clementine7/5/2019, 3:28:47 PM8 votes

With the Leona changes, why are her empowered autos after she ults being removed? It seems very random

Generic Ninja7/5/2019, 5:10:38 PM7 votes

Its been 2 years now since we were told by Ghostcrawler that we would get a crit rework that removes its RNG to fix the issue with output randomness. Since then, not only has that rework not materialized, there has been complete radio silence. Can we please just be told if this rework, undoubtedly one of the best and most important changes league would ever see is still happening? Or if the hope of fixing crit, and its design of promoting luck and devaluing skill is dead, and that those who dont want a game where luck can win a game on its own can just leave. Its frustrating holding out for years for a fix that might never happen, with a game that without that fix, simply isnt enjoyable enough.

Spideraxe7/5/2019, 3:21:59 PM6 votes

Hey Meddler can i ask for more of the thinking behind adding mobility stopping to Ahri E, because doesn't go against the original thinking that charms shouldn't stop dashes. Why not do a systemic pass on charms to allow them all to stop dashes

Also how did Qiyana land so far

Wrath Øf Zaun7/6/2019, 12:04:26 AM6 votes

I think adding those new mechanics to random champs isn't going to help the game balance at all. I mean look at Ahri, "Anti-Mobility"???

She has 3 dashes and a movement speed buff with hard CC and you want her to be able to counter the champions that who have dashes? The type of champs that can actually reliably kill her??? What sense does that make?

Hotarµ7/5/2019, 3:20:58 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler, hope you had a great 4th of July (if you celebrated it!)

Any plans to bring back the Mutilator/Mutilated status effect for other champions? I thought it was an interesting way to combat shielding and if these Renekton/Kled changes turn out to be too much, is that something you'd consider bringing back to the game?

IxtaliKing7/5/2019, 3:45:47 PM5 votes

This "soft counter" philosophy sounds interesting. But, I was wondering how something like this might apply to generalists with many strengths and fewer weaknesses (like my girl Karma).

Karma has existed in a state of either being obnoxious and abusive (item 3025 ), or underwhelming and borderline useless for several seasons. I believe this is in part due to her lack of a focused strength/weakness profile, and overly simplified mechanics. One of the biggest critiques of her cancelled rework was that it did nothing to fix these issues which many Karma mains believe to be glaring, yet less prevalent prior to 5.10.

Do you feel this is an issue?

The Last Ballad7/5/2019, 4:29:52 PM5 votes

Any chance Zyra can get in on those soft counter changes?

She used to be a soft counter to immobile champs, while naturally being weak to mobile ones(both ranged and melee), but then you gave every melee champ a laser axe to one hit her plants. Now she is extra weak against mobile melee enemies as they can still easily get on her while easily killing her plants, against immobile melee champs she is weak as she cannot burst them and her only source of dps, the plants, are easily destroyed by a item 3751, or just any auto.

With ranged champs she is still weak against the mobile, and against the immobile she has gotten stronger as the typical Zyra build is far more burst than dps(because we cant rely on our kit's dps to do anything before dying uselessly), and if I remember correctly, Zyra was reworked because she was mainly doing burst rather than using plants for dps.

Goldnight Angel7/5/2019, 4:36:28 PM5 votes

Given ranged top laners were a topic of contention last time, do you have any thoughts on the current state of Quinn Quinn? Especially in regard to her ability to scale into the game, given her fairly binary lane matchups.

Secretly a Phos7/5/2019, 8:39:26 PM5 votes

Context on the Renekton buffs? Renekton's already fairly one-shotty, so giving him a way to ignore shields while comboing people seems q bit much. While this is fine on something like blitz ult as a way to lower a targets survivability after grab ulting them, Renekton has more than enough damage already. If you're insistent on giving him a counter to shields, either lower his strength against other defenses, lower his overall damage, or make it do more damage to shields, or have a portion of the damage ignore shields(the way true damage ignores damage reduction).

SirPurrr7/5/2019, 11:59:28 PM5 votes

Shield breaking mechanics are really unpleasant to face and much worse than grievous wounds. At least there you still know how much HP you have to rely on even if you don't have as much sustain (and again, you'll notice that you're not healing the normal amount). However, shields are supposed to be relied on and many champions such as Ekko and Riven depend on them to even attempt plays at lower HP. if they can't count on the shield being what it claims, it ruins their entire playstyle and is just very deceiving. The whole point of these temporary shields is to give you momentary power to go in when you otherwise would be afraid to. You have a window of a few second and need to make it count.

Even if some mechanic for weakening shields exists, it should NOT function by just completely removing them. This is unintuitive, unfun to face and just makes too much of a champion useless just by virtue of another champion existing. It defies expectations and doesn't have much counterplay.

If it's to be introduced, it should at least be something more gradual, perhaps a softening mark on the shield. Even making the shield half size would be more welcome and fair than something this game breaking. That wouldn't completely deny champion playstyles/kits in a hard counter rock/paper/scissors manner. It would also be something you could understand and adjust for, as opposed to simply having your shield removed and your play unviable. I think the total removal of a shield by an ability is just terrible design and especially so because shields are supposed to encourage outplays at low HP. Imagine if grievous wounds just removes ALL healing completely. If that's too much, how isn't this?

Shaun Vayne7/5/2019, 10:34:40 PM4 votes

Greetings! Am I the only one completely horrified by the Renekton buff? That champion is already frustrating enough to play against (come on, why would a guaranteed stun last so long? Especially considering there isn't much counter play given his insane mobility and sustain in lane..)

Oxinior from LAN7/5/2019, 3:33:06 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler! Any thoughts on Shen or Ornn? Shen seems kinda good winrate wise, but matchup wise... Toplane's been hard for him. Well, any thoughts on Toplane tanks in general?

Sir Nope7/5/2019, 3:27:34 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler,

How has Qiyana Circle Throw Jones been faring? I haven't heard anything about her since her release.

J Eevo7/5/2019, 3:36:49 PM3 votes

Soft Champion Counters in 9.14

I love the idea but hate the aproach, since it seemed like a great way to make underplayed picks have a niche, but some champs you slapped these onto already have considerable pickrates and clearly don't need anything else for them to be considered good.

Why slap anti shielding onto Rene, who's already one of the most played toplaners with a plethora of tools that other picks lack already?(Rene's kit already has two dashes, sustain, stun etc., he doesn't need yet another niche)

why not put it onto something that's not played like mao or voli, or wu, or anything else that isn't the 5th most played toplaner Renekton.

Ahri's already played a TON, same for Katarina, do you really need to give people addition reasons to pick them? And why is the grievous wounds stronger than the ordinary grievous wounds debuff?

The Poppy change I like, but it's a waste since she already countered mobility now she's just gonna do it more, we need MORE champions to have these tools, not to have the 2 champions that have the anti mobility effects have them powered up more. Why is Poppy the only good anti dashing champion?

PopcornBunni7/8/2019, 9:16:36 AM2 votes

Changing to normal invisibility sounds like a great path to open up Akali's power budget, but I think there's roomto push it just a little bit in that regard -- make Akali revealed as normal by things like TwistedFate ult or LeeSin, but with catch: If an effect is granting true sight of Akali when she activates W, have that sight cleared. So she still becomes vulnerable to sight after using her smokescreen, but if she can activate the smokescreen for the intended purpose -- removing vision.

I'm not sure if I'm wording this all properly, but basically the idea is something like Gangplank oranges where it cleanses CC on use but he can still be effected by cc afterward.

Drathlord7/5/2019, 7:48:01 PM2 votes

WIll Swain changes go live at 9.14?

The23rdGamer7/6/2019, 7:49:39 PM2 votes

{quoted} TFT and integration with other systems

Now that we've got TFT available for wider play one of our next focuses is looking at where and how it should or shouldn't interact with other game systems.

...We're particularly interested in addressing situations where players want to spend their time playing a mixture of regular LoL and TFT but the way we've currently got things set up makes that feel a bit awkward or punishing.

Could Twisted Treeline maybe get this sort of pass over it as well? For those of us that like to play Twisted Treeline but also want to participate in League Events (especially those with Token Grinding, Missions, and other Passes) we basically feel punished if we play Twisted Treeline since it's excluded from those features almost always. :(

I know Twisted Treeline is probably the least popular mode right now, but we who do play it would play it more if we weren't forced to stop play it whenever an event comes around!

[slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

Soul Dealer7/5/2019, 3:24:46 PM2 votes

Any thoughts on the malphite changes?

Slyx the Rat7/6/2019, 7:36:03 AM1 votes

Leona W has flat damage reduction (makes her a stronger pick into DoT champs and others with effects that deal a small amount of damage many times like Kai'Sa Q)

Nice so Twitch's passive which already feels useless since ages will do 0 dmg per second over Leonas head lmao Give him some love... He need modernisation in his kit!