Voting system and player pre-conceptions based on it can really screw a post/comment over

HalcyonDweller·May 16, 2017·5 votes·771 views

Players downvote things without reading them, or they try to get their comments ahead of others by voting down others' questions in threads like Meddler's Gameplay Thoughts.

In the past I have experienced this and it was frustrating. lately Ive seen some really good questions by other people in the gameplay thoughts thread which have been downvoted once and don't get the attention they deserve because they don't show up near the top of the "best" list anymore.

Does anybody else think this is a problem?

36 Comments

HalcyonDwellerMay 16, 20172 votes

Some possible solutions are:

Allow a poster to disable voting (or even just downvoting) on the comments in their thread.
Hide votes for a period of time (MordeCaiser's idea posted just the other day)
Require comments for downvotes

ModWuksMay 16, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Some possible solutions are:

Allow a poster to disable voting (or even just downvoting) on the comments in their thread.

Hide votes for a period of time (MordeCaiser's idea posted just the other day)

Require comments for downvotes

I'm looking to post an update tomorrow, if I can get some things wrapped up today. Bear with me!

HalcyonDwellerMay 16, 20171 votes

OK :D I'm looking forwards to it, thanks!

ModWuksMay 17, 20171 votes

What browser do you use, by the way?

jaymc1130May 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What browser do you use, by the way?

If you are asking me, then a number of them depending what device I'm on.

ModWuksMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If you are asking me, then a number of them depending what device I'm on.

If you have Chrome, give this a go: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/league-of-legends-boards/infahnbhpbfhabjcepjndgfgdcjpifgm

I'll probably be posting this tomorrow, but I'd love to get your feedback before then!

jaymc1130May 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If you have Chrome, give this a go: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/league-of-legends-boards/infahnbhpbfhabjcepjndgfgdcjpifgm

I'll probably be posting this tomorrow, but I'd love to get your feedback before then!

Oh man I wish I could, but sadly work called and I'm heading out for Brownsville in an hour to load an oil freighter that's coming into Houston. Given how long the last gig out here took I'll probably by on the road for the next 8 hours, working for the next 20 straight, and then driving 8 hours back home provided I don't pass out at the wheel and crash my ride due to exaughstion.

But I'd be happy to have a look when business slows down some this weekend.

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

Holy crap dude, drive safe. We want to hear from you again this weekend!

Little known trick to staying awake while tired: holding a small amount of water in your mouth without swallowing works wonders. Your brain won't let you fall asleep because you trick it into thinking you will drown if you relax.

jaymc1130May 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Holy crap dude, drive safe. We want to hear from you again this weekend!

Everything's going good we've started up operations and I've got about 4 more hours of stuff before I've got 8 hours or so of downtime before the load completes and we have to finish closing all the tanks that loaded into it. They got me a nice comfy lil cabin to take a nap in. Most ships have such a cabin specifically for this purpose as the industry knows the gig can play havoc with your sleep schedule.

Little known trick to staying awake while tired: holding a small amount of water in your mouth without swallowing works wonders. Your brain won't let you fall asleep because you trick it into thinking you will drown if you relax.

Great trick, got me home safe and sound last trip out here. Gum apparently is also good for the same reasons. My cheeks hurt though from blowing so many bubbles to stay awake, lol.

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Everything's going good we've started up operations and I've got about 4 more hours of stuff before I've got 8 hours or so of downtime before the load completes and we have to finish closing all the tanks that loaded into it. They got me a nice comfy lil cabin to take a nap in. Most ships have such a cabin specifically for this purpose as the industry knows the gig can play havoc with your sleep schedule.

Nice! That sounds like a pretty difficult job. I'm glad they accommodate you well.

Great trick, got me home safe and sound last trip out here. Gum apparently is also good for the same reasons. My cheeks hurt though from blowing so many bubbles to stay awake, lol.

I'm glad you knew the trick already! Damn, haha. I wish I could rely on gum too. My problem is that I get TMJ-lockups whenever I chew anything too much.

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

I use firefox primarily, I like that they try to protect my rights and that they don't violate my privacy and sell my information like some other browsers do.

ModWuksMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I use firefox primarily, I like that they try to protect my rights and that they don't violate my privacy and sell my information like some other browsers do.

I'll try to have the extension ported to FireFox and Edge within the next few hours, but otherwise, I'll just push back the release post to tomorrow. :P

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

Okay :) well no pressure! Just the act of working on this makes you a hero in my mind.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

ModWuksMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

OK :D I'm looking forwards to it, thanks!

If you have Chrome, give this a go: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/league-of-legends-boards/infahnbhpbfhabjcepjndgfgdcjpifgm

I'll probably be posting this tomorrow, but I'd love to get your feedback before then!

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

This looks really cool, I'll have to install it on my computer when I get home from work.

One question though: It is a plugin, so will it only work for people who install it? Or are these features likely to be implemented in the boards coding overall?

jaymc1130May 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

This looks really cool, I'll have to install it on my computer when I get home from work.

One question though: It is a plugin, so will it only work for people who install it? Or are these features likely to be implemented in the boards coding overall?

It seems cool to me for the background artwork alone.

@wuks : any chance we could get community artwork on rotation as backgrounds? That way the various works of art our amazing community comes up with have a way that everyone can easily see some cool stuff by us for us.

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

Agreed, featuring background artwork would be extremely cool :)

[slayer-jinx-catface]

ModWuksMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted} @wuks : any chance we could get community artwork on rotation as backgrounds? That way the various works of art our amazing community comes up with have a way that everyone can easily see some cool stuff by us for us.

That is a fantastic idea! I'll try to see how we can implement that once we launch. You da best :)

jaymc1130May 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That is a fantastic idea! I'll try to see how we can implement that once we launch. You da best :)

I'd love to take credit for it, but this one's not mine, came from a post I saw in GD the other day, can't remember who it was that said it tho, maybe vespernadal (or however it's spelled) I think? Dunno, I'll find out so you can attribute credit for that idea properly.

ModWuksMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

One question though: It is a plugin, so will it only work for people who install it? Or are these features likely to be implemented in the boards coding overall?

Good question!

Correct, since this is going to be a 3rd party extension that provides a mask for the Boards, the changes provided from the extension will likely be exclusive to those who use the extension. The idea is to continue to test certain suggestions to generate the ideal Boards experience in the meantime while we don't have access to developers, and once those resources are available, we have a better understanding of what works and doesn't work and can pass the list on for development.

jaymc1130May 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Good question!

Correct, since this is going to be a 3rd party extension that provides a mask for the Boards, the changes provided from the extension will likely be exclusive to those who use the extension. The idea is to continue to test certain suggestions to generate the ideal Boards experience in the meantime while we don't have access to developers, and once those resources are available, we have a better understanding of what works and doesn't work and can pass the list on for development.

It's basically a riot approved version of what Tundra Fizz has been doing mostly independently for the last few years, might actually consider picking his brain about how things with FEK progressed over the years, it'd be a base to start from that isn't complete scratch and load of additional extra information.

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

Seems like a good strategy in lieu of having the developers needed. Thanks for working on this :)

HalcyonDwellerMay 16, 20171 votes

Requiring comments to vote would help with one particular problem:

I've noticed that people can just drop a single downvote on a comment that somebody else has replied to and that can sometimes cause the first commenter to respond negatively. Thus stirring up a 'fire' and then enjoying watching the ensuing fight. It would be good to prevent this.

jaymc1130May 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Requiring comments to vote would help with one particular problem:

I've noticed that people can just drop a single downvote on a comment that somebody else has replied to and that can sometimes cause the first commenter to respond negatively. Thus stirring up a 'fire' and then enjoying watching the ensuing fight. It would be good to prevent this.

Oh that practice is commonplace on some of the subboards and there are some less than pleasant regular posters who engage in various shenanigans like that. I really dislike seeing it when it happens so I'm all for something like that, but it would be rather impractical to implement. If we wanted Riot to consider something that could combat that specific issue we would need to come up with a really specific solution.

HalcyonDwellerMay 16, 20172 votes

What if it showed names for upvotes / downvotes just like facebook does for likes?

That would remove the cumbersome requirement of writing a comment.

EDIT: Honestly downvotes don't usually offer any benefit to discussions. Mostly they are just a means for people to pile on against someone else they disagree with. People who post controversial opinions already get challenged in response, and comments or posts that are inappropriate already can just be reported. There's no need for downvotes.

jaymc1130May 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What if it showed names for upvotes / downvotes just like facebook does for likes?

That would remove the cumbersome requirement of writing a comment.

EDIT: Honestly downvotes don't usually offer any benefit to discussions. Mostly they are just a means for people to pile on against someone else they disagree with. People who post controversial opinions already get challenged in response, and comments or posts that are inappropriate already can just be reported. There's no need for downvotes.

Yeah, if I had a choice I think that is ultimately the route I would take to be honest. It's been recommended before but some how the thought never seems to gain enough traction.

I like it though. Only upvotes allowed. And get rid of the silly "you get your own upvote on any comment you post baloney", lol, like why is that even a thing? I'm just happy no one has tried to out do Laughing Fish's upvote total by posting spam replies to everything. Goodness that would be a headache and a half if it ever happens.

AeszarckMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, if I had a choice I think that is ultimately the route I would take to be honest. It's been recommended before but some how the thought never seems to gain enough traction.

I like it though. Only upvotes allowed. And get rid of the silly "you get your own upvote on any comment you post baloney", lol, like why is that even a thing? I'm just happy no one has tried to out do Laughing Fish's upvote total by posting spam replies to everything. Goodness that would be a headache and a half if it ever happens.

I like to reply to as many of the posts in my threads as I can but that's just because I don't want people to feel left out.

jaymc1130May 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I like to reply to as many of the posts in my threads as I can but that's just because I don't want people to feel left out.

Wait til you have your first 100 upvote thread that goes on for a week. Trust me, don't even TRY to answer everyone back, lol, you'll only wear yourself out. Respond to each new issue or debate point and refer repeat questions to the previous answers and conversations. Otherwise you'll wind up repeating yourself every damn page. It's also wise to regularly edit and update your OP with FAQ type information from the comments after certain debate points have been made and their validity confirmed.

It's always nice to try to get a moment to address everyone, but sometimes you'll just have to let the repeat question askers go find those answers for themselves. All they gotta do is scroll and maybe click once or twice.

AeszarckMay 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Wait til you have your first 100 upvote thread that goes on for a week.

That will never happen :(

SecondChanceHeroMay 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That will never happen :(

Only if you never try mate.

KrigjerMay 17, 20172 votes

I hate downvoting/upvoting systems in forums. It discourages discussion.

jaymc1130May 17, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I hate downvoting/upvoting systems in forums. It discourages discussion.

A fact confirmed by the direct proportional increase in worthwhile discussions when we removed votes from GD for 4 months. It really did help promote more productive discussions. Ever since they came back the place reverted to its previous occasional random nastiness.

What about upvotes only?

This is perhaps the other best idea.

jaymc1130May 16, 20171 votes

Actually, many in the community have considered this a problem in the past and I'm sure many still do.

We have tried some various expirements in GD like disabling voting for threads but leaving it enabled for comments. Did it for several months actually and I rather liked the change and how much more discussion was promoted and how much less infighting and surliness there was. I wouldn't mind that again so I suppose it's an option.

But I DO like to upvote posters for posts I find particularly awesome for any number of various reasons (usually I find something hilarious, like a meme). So there is a draw back.

Another suggestion a few years back was to only enable voting on a thread AFTER the thread page had been visited by the user. This does a number of things: posters can't just read a title, disagree blindly and downvote, using smurfs to vote bot threads would be more time consuming and difficulty which would decrease vote bot abuse, and players who visit a thread page are generally then also more likely to get involved in and promote a healthy and worthwhile discussion.

Just some older ideas that have floated around a while.

HalcyonDwellerMay 16, 20171 votes

AeszarckMay 17, 20171 votes

I'd like to propose a solution. This site I visit frequently, The Hive Workshop, uses a view that is like Chronological View and has no upvotes or downvotes. It does have this thing called Reputation though. Resources and posts and replies in most Boards are eligible for Reputation. People can give reputation with or without a comment (EDIT: and by that, I mean that the comment is attached to the reputation. For example, I could +rep someone and say "Wow, really fun party map!" and the person would see that comment in their rep history), and users can view their reputation history in their profiles. This reputation history is also public, so users and mods can make sure that people aren't reputation trading or anything. It's also just nice to see what popular things other people have done; for example, if a user received a lot of rep for one resource, you might go check out that resource too. Everyone has a reputation score that's public and is shown through gems. Posts do not automatically give a reputation to the user; other uses must +rep it. I think it's a great way to make sure that all people are heard and it is a good way to promote friendliness and discussion, since only nice comments are used with +rep and if people disagree they have to comment. There's no downvoting to shut out unpopular opinions.

HalcyonDwellerMay 17, 20171 votes

I like this a lot, it would be nice if we did something similar with the boards :)