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Updating Guidelines for "Inappropriate Discussion topics"

NipNapper·12/13/2018, 7:28:42 AM·1 votes·2,350 views

Hey folks! I'm relatively new to League (I got an account a couple of years ago, but dropped it because I couldn't get into it then. Now I'm hooked!), so I wasn't really familiar with all of the board rules. So the other day, when I created a discussion called "League of Queers: LGBTQ Pride!" I didn't know that it violated the rules about "Inappropriate discussion topics." Well, today, I got a notification that my discussion was removed, and I am disappointed. I see that it contradicts the rules, but frankly, I think the rules need to be more nuanced.

For reference, here is the message I received from Riot:

__This thread was removed because it veered sharply into discussions about gay presence, experience and community, making it effectively impossible to clean up.

As per the Boards Universal Rules, we do not tolerate posts that discuss:

Religion Sex Politics Any social issues, though some exceptions may be appropriate While we understand that players may be passionate about certain topics, the topics listed are problematic on the Boards because they generally end up derailing, leading to arguments and insults.

I'd like to emphasize that this is not a warning; however, please take some time to familiarize yourself with the Boards Universal Rules, as well as the guidelines for any sub-board you intend to post in before you do so.

If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via:

The NA Boards Discord The Discuss the Boards sub-board -- Ulanopo___

I understand Riot's viewpoint, because I agree that for a gaming community, messy discussions about controversial issues would just hinder the experience of everyone. However, the intent of my thread was not to discuss social issues, but to allow myself and any other like-minded people to celebrate LGBTQ pride within League. That's not a social issue. I wasn't inviting people to come and express their opinion on whether or not they think LGBTQ pride is a good thing or a bad thing, I just wanted to create a space where it was ok to say, "here, we are queer."

Now, in the brief time my thread was up, it was clear to me that it was unpopular. I don't know how many queer people actually saw it, but at least a few seemed to think it was unnecessary at best. Ultimately, I wasn't super attached to the discussion, so I don't mind if it's removed. However, the reasons it was removed concern me, and I want to discuss updating the rules to better reflect the kinds of discussions we want or don't want.

The only reason my thread violated rules is because the rules explicitly say that the topic of sexual orientation is not allowed. I think this is a bit problematic. If it's not okay to talk about sexual orientation at all, then how are LGBTQ people supposed to be openly queer within the community? Where is the distinction between queer people just existing in peace and people trying to stir the pot? This may not seem important now, but if this community wants to prove that it really is open to people of all backgrounds, it's crucial that it not completely ban discussion of said backgrounds.

There are other problems I have with this decision as well, like the fact that the moderator said the thread was "impossible to clean up" (it had less than 24 posts on it. That takes a few minutes to read through. Hardly impossible). I would also add that I was extremely polite and respectful throughout the entire thread, and the fact that it "veered off" is due to other players who decided they had to challenge the existence of my thread. That doesn't change the underlying issue, but I can't help but feel like all the blame was put on me for what is, at least partially, the choices of others.

However, those issues are secondary to the main one, which is that I don't think removing all discussions about sexual orientation or gender identity is healthy, because those topics don't have to always be treated as controversial or political.

TL;DR: We should change the rules so that sexual orientation/gender identity/other facets of identity are not inherently seen as "inappropriate." We need to distinguish between content that is meant to just be positive and affirming and content that is unnecessarily divisive.

3 Comments

ModThe Djinn12/13/2018, 2:34:14 PM4 votes

So this is a tough one. On the one hand, sexual orientation/gender identity/etc. are not inherently seen as inappropriate. We don't remove posts for people identifying certain ways.

What we do have to do is keep an eye on board trends and make often difficult decisions about what is appropriate given the board community. A thread for people to say "hi, I'm here, I'm part of the LGBTQ community, and here's another community I love that you guys should check out" is something I don't have an issue with. I understand that's your intent here, but we also have to keep in mind what the responses are like and -- sadly -- this sort of topic has proved to be a firestorm on the boards. I'd love to say we can have political/social discussions here, but I have not seen them treated respectfully in the past, so it's kind of a case of the repeated problematic behaviors making it so we can't have a nice thing.

Since those threads are typically firestorms, we have to be extra cautious around threads that start discussing social or political issues. That's distinct from self-identification, and your thread definitely veered from the latter into the former. It didn't help that it included multiple statements about a love for specific genitalia, which isn't cool on the boards no matter what genitalia you may have and what genitalia you may like.

Finally, use of the word "queers" can be problematic to some, and is often used as a slur. It's one thing to self-identify as that, and another to group all LGBTQ individuals as "queers," which is something that cuts a little close to a common insult. I totally get that it doesn't always mean that, and that some people love the term used in that way, but it gets difficult to enforce when we have to parse statements like "League of Queers" to judge whether it's antagonistic or not, and who gets to call who what under what circumstances.

I'm not saying our policies around these things are perfect, but I do want to give you an idea of the fairly complex situation surrounding this sort of thing.

I'll bring this post up to the team though. We're looking at some potential board changes in the future, and this discussion may be a good one to have again.

mlm olo mlm12/13/2018, 7:53:35 AM3 votes

What does sexual preference or gender have to do with playing video games?

If you were being oppressed, I could see some usefulness. However, I've never seen league inquire a players sex, race, etc.

P.S. I'm personally in favor of free speech. That isn't going to happen though.