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Removal of the topic - "Is the LOL is PAY4WIN type of game?"

Neosphoros··2 votes·3,308 views

Today my "Is the LOL is PAY4WIN type of game?" topic was removed from the board. The reason for this was:

"We've recently removed your post for violating the Boards Universal Rules and sub-board guidelines, which prohibit the posting of low-effort and non-constructive content."

So it is possible to say that the reason does not fit to my tread content and should not be removed.

Topic have had contain information that could be assessed by different people in different way so if there is no possible to proof "only right true" it is imposible to evaluate my thread negativly or as a lie. No one has presented any just enough evidence to undermine my topic, therefore removing it only because - you can ... is a manifestation of intolerance.

Thread also does not brake any rules included in board regulations.

24 Comments

ModUlanopo8 votes

EDIT: As the OP's question about why their G+ submission was declined has been answered, the thread has served its purpose and has been closed.

For context, here's the full text of your post:

On the beggining I read that LOLs player selecting system is based on ELO system... no it is not. ELO system could not deal with team-making system. After that I have heard that this is not ELO system, but... MMR. Unfortunately oposite to ELO system, mechanics of MMR is absolutely unknown. Nobody knows how it works, there is no information about player selction system algorithm. After few thousand games I just realized taht there is no rule with who we will be playing in one team and mostly players will be selected completely randomly. Lie is the statement that in one team player are slected with similiar experience (or MMR whatever it means).

All of this suggest that LOL is PAY4WIN type of game.

Had this post been in General Discussion, I probably would have left it. In Gameplay, however, it's considered low-effort.

Matchmaking is sketchy as a Gameplay topic to begin with, as players don't have much understanding of internal system mechanics, as you point out. One of the purposes of Gameplay as a board is to help players grow and adapt to become better. One cannot adapt to the matchmaking system. It's also worth noting that Elo never intended his system to be used for matchmaking, except maybe in the most general sense. Elo is better intended to give an idea of the relative strengths of two players.

You then go on to make some unsubstantiated claims about MMR being "a lie" and jump to the unsupported conclusion that this somehow makes League a "PAY4WIN" game. I don't know how you meant to square that with the fact that League is free to play, but ultimately it's the kind of discussion that just gets derailed into bickering and personal insults, which is why it was removed.

Neosphoros1 votes

[deleted]

EvilDustMan1 votes

{quoted}

Why simply to not move this topic to right place. I guess you should have that rights.

What still is not so obvious and is not an argument "for" or "against" removing a specific topic.

My conclusion are based on my observation same as other players opinion can be based on their private observation. If none of those sides was proved it is impossible that someone is right or not. Therefore, my statement that "MMR is a lie" can not be assessed as a lie, if the only argument is that MMR works properly that - it works properly because... for some player - it works properly.

Where does the pay 2 win come in?

Stars Shaper3 votes

The argument was like: "No1 knows how MMR works so I say that it's a pay2win mechanic and no1 can say it isn't because no1 knows what the algorithm behind it is".

EvilDustMan1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=paBoOqQo,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-29T18:21:35.569+0000)

The argument was like: "No1 knows how MMR works so I say that it's a pay2win mechanic and no1 can say it isn't because no1 knows what the algorithm behind it is".

Oh well, I think MMR is based on faeries, you can't disprove it.

Imperial Pandaa2 votes

They are unable to move discussions to the right sub board.

Neosphoros1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=paBoOqQo,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2018-12-29T18:34:40.456+0000)

They are unable to move discussions to the right sub board.

They can. I know it for sure. This is the basic functionality.

Imperial Pandaa1 votes

Not all boards are created equally. When this forum was created, the original developers did not include the feature.

Modi1 votes

If they could, there would be thousands of threads that would not have been closed for being in the wrong sub-board. While yes it is usually a basic feature of a boards/forum system, it is not in this one.

Neosphoros1 votes

{quoted}

If they could, there would be thousands of threads that would not have been closed for being in the wrong sub-board. While yes it is usually a basic feature of a boards/forum system, it is not in this one.

This is something what I was taliking about. About things that people have no idea are talking people that do not know nothing.

I came from EUNE forum. There was no problem at all to moving specific topic to right place if needed. Here forum is even more advanced so I'm able to say that it would be even weird if this forum have no functionality like this.

Deleting, moving, changing threads are the basics functionalities in moderators privilages.

KFCeytron1 votes

{quoted}

This is something what I was taliking about. About things that people have no idea are talking people that do not know nothing.

I came from EUNE forum. There was no problem at all to moving specific topic to right place if needed. Here forum is even more advanced so I'm able to say that it would be even weird if this forum have no functionality like this.

Deleting, moving, changing threads are the basics functionalities in moderators privilages.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/your-logic-is-wc6eqm.jpg

EvilDustMan5 votes

It's not. That's the whole thread right there.

'Is League Pay 2 Win'

'no'

/thread

Neosphoros1 votes

{quoted}

It's not. That's the whole thread right there.

'Is League Pay 2 Win'

'no'

/thread

If such answers could decide to delete threads on the forum there would be no topics on board at all ... and because neither your answers (maybe mine too) were based on any rational evidence - this should not be the reason for deleting the topic.

Olga Rajecka4 votes

[deleted]

Neosphoros1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xG Spectre,realm=EUNE,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=paBoOqQo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-29T10:45:15.130+0000)

That's because your English is as broken as League's balance.

The complexity of the subject was so big that the translator could not cope with it. ;)

However, everyone understood the meaning of my thread.

CauseSCIENCE4 votes

{quoted}

The complexity of the subject was so big that the translator could not cope with it. ;)

However, everyone understood the meaning of my thread.

Not really, I got some parts, but the reasoning behind your claim is pretty blurry.

Neosphoros1 votes

{quoted}

Not really, I got some parts, but the reasoning behind your claim is pretty blurry.

But within whole topic I'm trying to proove my arguments... same as some of you trying to disproove it... and even maybe my suggestions are not strong enough - it is possible to say the same about yours... and it is only based on your ideas and believes (nowhere explained: MMR algorithm, principle of operation) - becouse of that removing this topic was form of bias.

Olga Rajecka4 votes

{quoted}

The complexity of the subject was so big that the translator could not cope with it. ;)

However, everyone understood the meaning of my thread.

There is nothing complex in what you wrote. You completely misunderstand the meaning of P2W and your general understanding of MMR and Matchmaking Systems in general is anemic at best.

Inkling Commando1 votes

surprised this topic hasn't been downvoted to hell yet. i'll get it 12 hours.

Neosphoros1 votes

{quoted}

For context, here's the full text of your post: After few thousand games I just realized taht there is no rule with who we will be playing in one team and mostly players will be selected completely randomly. Lie is the statement that in one team player are slected with similiar experience (or MMR whatever it means).

Had this post been in General Discussion, I probably would have left it. In Gameplay, however, it's considered low-effort.

Why simply to not move this topic to right place. I guess you should have that rights.

Matchmaking is sketchy as a Gameplay topic to begin with, as players don't have much understanding of internal system mechanics, as you point out. One of the purposes of Gameplay as a board is to help players grow and adapt to become better. One cannot adapt to the matchmaking system. It's also worth noting that Elo never intended his system to be used for matchmaking, except maybe in the most general sense. Elo is better intended to give an idea of the relative strengths of two players.

What still is not so obvious and is not an argument "for" or "against" removing a specific topic.

You then go on to make some unsubstantiated claims about MMR being "a lie" and jump to the unsupported conclusion that this somehow makes League a "PAY4WIN" game. I don't know how you meant to square that with the fact that League is free to play, but ultimately it's the kind of discussion that just gets derailed into bickering and personal insults, which is why it was removed.

My conclusion are based on my observation same as other players opinion can be based on their private observation. If none of those sides was proved it is impossible that someone is right or not. Therefore, my statement that "MMR is a lie" can not be assessed as a lie, if the only argument is that MMR works properly that - it works properly because... for some player - it works properly.

ModUlanopo1 votes

Why simply to not move this topic to right place. I guess you should have that rights.

That is not a functionality of the Boards. As far as I am aware, it is not a function of any of the regional boards.

Neosphoros1 votes

{quoted}

That is not a functionality of the Boards. As far as I am aware, it is not a function of any of the regional boards.

I'm writing my comments in different regions than NA... in case of some mistakes there was no problems if moving topic in different place was needed.

ModArticus431 votes

The burden of proof is on you to have substantive evidence to support your claims. You have nothing substantive from your post as Ulanopo has detailed. As for your defense:

My conclusion are based on my observation same as other players opinion can be based on their private observation. . .

This is fine, but you provided no concrete evidence to support your observations.

No one has presented any just enough evidence to undermine my topic. . .

If none of those sides was proved it is impossible that someone is right or not. Therefore, my statement that "MMR is a lie" can not be assessed as a lie,

These are called appeals to ignorance and they are fallacious (false) statements. See here for more info.

therefore removing it only because - you can ... is a manifestation of intolerance.

This is a false-cause argument and is likewise fallacious. See here.

if the only argument is that MMR works properly that - it works properly because... for some player - it works properly.

Nobody has made this claim.

Neosphoros1 votes

{quoted}

The burden of proof is on you to have substantive evidence to support your claims. You have nothing substantive from your post as Ulanopo has detailed. As for your defense:

This is fine, but you provided no concrete evidence to support your observations.

In the same way it is possible to say that RIOT did not provide any concrete evidence for how MMR/ELO works... only becouse RIOT says that it works - we have to believe that it works... in the same way why should I have any evidence?

These are called appeals to ignorance and they are fallacious (false) statements. See here for more info.

This not the same. If you will see a white paper - you can say that "this paper is white", but if somebody will cover his own piece of paper and will tell you that "this paper is blue" - you do not have to believe for sure that is true (in the same way you have the right to believe that information maight be - lie) - so you can not assess it as a fact but only to believe it (or not). Players knowledge is not based on facts but on faith, becouse RIOT said that something is working properly... but if nobody can veryfi it - is it possible to say that is "faith" and not a "knowledge".

This is a false-cause argument and is likewise fallacious. See here.

There is no relationship other than type of way of logic in evaluation of situation.

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