Individual word censorship on the boards.

Jo0o·Dec 21, 2018·13 votes·12,135 views

I humbly submit that "the r-word" being censored on the boards is a terrible idea. I'm not a fan of individuals who use it, and I'm not here to strut some poorly-conceived "muh free speech" argument. I disagree for one simple reason: Previously, any word changed to "%%%"s on the boards was easily identified as a zero-tolerance word in-game, but the "r-word" is treated as normal flame. This will cause confusion over on the PB boards. Please consider reverting this change.

64 Comments

ModUlanopoDec 22, 201810 votes

We had a fair bit of discussion about this before it was added to the censored word list and it's an interesting story - at least from my perspective - how we came to that decision.

A member of the team said, basically, "I think that word gets used too casually on the Boards. It's always an insult and I always feel bad when I see it, but we let it slide. I'd like to revisit it." The immediate response was the old standby argument of how it's synonymous with slowing, hindering or delaying. Resistant to fire was also mentioned. There was some back-and-forth about innocuous uses that occur organically on the Boards (hint: they're really rare).

That's when someone pointed out that the people arguing for keeping it had completely disregarded the "I always feel bad" part of the opening statement. That's when people had the light bulb moment of giving the consideration of peoples' feelings equal time. We talked about how there are plenty of easy replacements with much less pejorative context. We talked about how there are lots of words that people don't realize are offensive, mostly because they don't belong to the affected culture or they're just not popular any more. (If you want an example of this latter idea in action, watch people seeing Django Unchained for the first time. You might be surprised at their reaction to the racial slurs, but that's really just a measure of how much things can and do change.) People missed it, but a couple other slurs or insults were also added to the list. People just haven't noticed because they're no longer in common usage.

After a great deal of heated debate, we came to the consensus that it was okay to add that term to the filter and, if it ever became a problem, we would revisit it. I don't think that's likely, but I could be wrong.

As for masking the word making it more difficult to know what was said, I don't see that as a huge concern. I think people will get it most of the time from the context and there's a benefit to getting people in the habit of just using the synonyms.

JonneeGDec 22, 20184 votes

Thanks for the explanation.

Question: why is the word r_etard worse than the words idiot. or imbecile, moron, nitwit, "Retart", kook, dumb, or knave?

They all are mainly used as insults, and could make someone "feel bad". Retart is an intentional misspelling of the word in question, and isn't picked up by the system, does this mean the ban on the word is moot.

LeetriDec 22, 20183 votes

All those other words don't have the same history of being used mostly against people with mental disabilities. The only reason people think the N word is worse than "cracker" is because the N word has a long history of being used to put down a certain type of people. They essentially mean the same thing, insulting a person over their skin colour, but they carry very different connotations due to having different histories.

ModUlanopoDec 22, 20182 votes

All those other words don't have the same history of being used mostly against people with mental disabilities.

Pretty much this.

We have to consider more than just the dictionary definitions of words and phrases. When it comes to moderation, we have to take how the word or phrase is most commonly used into account. As an example, "I felt like an idiot" is a fairly popular construction. When there is a general-use context that isn't an insult, we prefer to keep the word and manually moderate the instances in which it is used as an insult.

Hellmaximus1Feb 18, 20191 votes

Dude, the reason why the R word was used was because they said the word imbecile was offense.

Now it has moved to the R word that offense.

As it turns out, whatever word you want to have that meaning will become in insult due to the nature of that meaning.

Nik NikersonDec 22, 20184 votes

The word "knave" doesn't have anything to do with one's intelligence. It means, "a dishonest or unscrupulous man".

AirKingNeoDec 22, 20183 votes

The issue is though is that there are other uses of the R-word outside of ableism (which is calling a person this word).

If you call an action or idea by the R-word, then I'm actually referring to the Latin root definition rather than the slang slur. It's just another way to say "stupid" or "moronic".

And there's the least used application, which is completely opposite the direction of ableism and 100% in the direction of the actual definition, which is putting a -ation suffix on.

ModUlanopoDec 22, 20182 votes

The issue is though is that there are other uses of the R-word outside of ableism (which is calling a person this word).

Then perhaps you missed the point of the conversation the moderators had. We are perfectly aware of the other uses for the word. Unfortunately, proper use of the word is so rare that it's healthier for the Boards if we encourage people to use the synonyms instead for those circumstances.

We are also aware of the opinion some people hold that unrestricted speech should almost always trump other considerations. As moderators, however, we have to seek a balance between competing rights, one of which is to be free of harassment and insult.

AirKingNeoDec 22, 20181 votes

We are also aware of the opinion some people hold that unrestricted speech should almost always trump other considerations. As moderators, however, we have to seek a balance between competing rights, one of which is to be free of harassment and insult.

I have to agree there. Totally unregulated speech is just a watching a fire that never ends.

Jo0oDec 23, 20182 votes

I think it's a reasonable word to ban from the boards. I'll leave that call to you guys.

But here's my issue: How often do we have folks posting chat logs claiming innocence, or even outright lying about the contents of their logs? It's not uncommon for somebody to claim that the six "%s" found in their logs are for "fucking", or something similar. Well, now they can say it was the r-word, which in League is not considered hate speech. The PB board already has a huge struggle over misinformation, and this holds the potential to add to the confusion.

ModUlanopoDec 23, 20181 votes

If need be, we can go in on the back end and see unfiltered text. As it stands, we believe the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

mtothe6thpowerDec 24, 20181 votes

Would there be any way to, basically, if there's a ZT word being used to uncensor the first and last letters of the words? It would solve a lot of "What word is that?"

disregardableDec 21, 20187 votes

r-word is hate speech, it's ableism. I think it makes more sense to be censored than "count minus a letter".

like that's not even a bad word, wtf rito.

Jo0oDec 21, 20183 votes

If Riot is going to classify it as such, then it needs to be a 14-day ban in game (and clearly announced as such). If not, it should be usable on the boards. We need consistency.

disregardableDec 21, 20186 votes

and clearly announced as such

I was under the impression it IS a 14 day ban in-game. They don't announce any of their words specifically. because telling people what's against the rules would be fair or something.

Jo0oDec 21, 20182 votes

I was prompted to make this thread based on a player complaining about their ten-game chat restriction, which included this word in their log. I'd have ordinarily assumed it would be a racial or homophobic slur.

Oakleaf RangerDec 22, 20181 votes

Yah I didn't know I could call people %%%%%%ed in game.

Sweet

Hellmaximus1Feb 18, 20191 votes

It will not give you a 14 day ban, it will however depending on the context you say it in will give you a 10 games chat restriction.

For example, I called Malzahar a r%%%%%ed champion, and in another game called sunfire cap a R%%%%%ed item (The last one being a joke on Burning cape), Turns out, riot doesn't agree with the use of the word.

So if you don't want to put your honor at jeopardy or hold back your honor growth, I'd suggest just removing the word entirely from you league vocabulary.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 22, 20182 votes

Define "hate speech"

ModmichaelchanDec 22, 20182 votes

Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 22, 20182 votes

Define "speech that attacks a person or group"

rujitraDec 23, 20182 votes

You know, if you keep looking in the dictionary, and for every definition, you have to look up every word used in the definition itself, you'll never stop looking. It's a circle.

Point being, you're being dense. That phrase is very clear and does not need definition.

speech that attacks a person or group is speech (i.e. words, phrases, text, images, etc.) that attacks (i.e insults, demeans, harasses, takes a punch at, etc.) a person (i.e. an individual) or group (i.e. multiple persons).

It's not that hard.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 23, 20182 votes

Who decides what "words, phrases, text, images" are "attacks"

"Its not that hard" offends me, you are clearly saying it in an insulting manner, thus you are spewing "hate speech" you need to be immediatly banned, and "it's not that hard" needs to be censored.

You attacked me with words, thus based on this system you should be punished.

See my point? "Hate speech" is 100% in the ears of the listen. And punishing people based off of speech is stupid. Theres a reason why the US has protected speech, cause once you go down this road of banning words or phrases it only ends badly for every one.

Yes this is RIOTs boards and they have the power/rights to do as they see fit. But it should never come to that. Unfortunately the gaming community allows toxicity to grow, Due to "screen warriors". 99% of what most people say on the internet they would never say in RL directly to that same person. Gunna be honest there is no way to fix this, censorship least of all, other than how they are raised and taught how to converse properly including over the internet. This mostly falls to the parents.

rujitraDec 23, 20182 votes

No, I shouldn't. While my comment could be seen as insulting, and I will admit that, that does not make it hate speech.

It may meet the definition of "speech that attacks", but it is not on the basis of one of those unalterable and inherent classes of people that are necessary to classify it as hate speech.

Things like race, gender, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, etc. Attacking someone simply because of who they are with no valid reason. That's hate speech.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 23, 20182 votes

Oooooooh so now it's only hate speech if it's against LGBQYXZ. Got it.

So let me guess, you also think that you cant be racist at or discriminate against white men?

You attacked me, you admitted to it. By your own original definition, and even the mods definition that is "hate speech". You attacked me based off of my intelligence, that is what you discriminated against. Like it or not you did it. But I'm not gunna cry about it, I'm simply pointing out how easy it is to say something that would be defined as "hate speech".

rujitraDec 23, 20182 votes

Intelligence is something you can control. You cannot control your race. You cannot control your sexual orientation. You cannot control your citizenship, etc.

You certainly can control your intelligence, unless you have a mental disability. Note I did not imply nor claim you did have a mental disability, thus the lack of intelligence you think I am implying (which I'm really not) is not something that is protected.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 23, 20183 votes

Dont worry I know you are not trying to insult me lol. Although you did call me dense.

No you do not have 100% control over your intelligence, nor do you your skills.

Some people will always be more naturally talented. This includes intelligence. No matter how much studying some people do they will never be as good at or as talented as some other people or person.

KrynnˉDec 21, 20187 votes

Tbh the word she even be banned as it comes for the latin word r-i-t-a-r-d meaning slow, which is very commonly used in music written as "rit". Censorship of this word is the equivalent of censoring 1945 because it was the year WW2 ended.

Jo0oDec 21, 20182 votes

What.

KrynnˉDec 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

What.

I mean the word itself doesn't mean anything bad, like it's not a swear word, it's like the english word "slow" being offensive, it makes no sense.

Jo0oDec 21, 20182 votes

You can say the same for the n-word, but it's still fucked up to say to somebody.

KrynnˉDec 21, 20187 votes

{quoted}

You can say the same for the n-word, but it's still fucked up to say to somebody.

No, the n-word is and always was vulgar term, the r-word is not and is still commonly used in music, it's only offensive if you call another person that, and even then, it really isn't that bad in all honesty, it's the equivalent to calling someone stupid tbh, not something I'd get hyper offended over.

Depends on the person really, I don't consider the word bad enough where it would be a "oh no he said that word" type of situation if I were to call a co-worker that if they made a dumb mistake. In most cases they would laugh it off and be like "yeah yeah, you're an asshole, lol", but if I were to say "You're a fkn idiot n-word" then you can see how that would come across as deeply offensive.

I see the word as socially acceptable for playful banter.

Jo0oDec 21, 20183 votes

You're referring to a latin route, which is where the n-word comes from as well. And I think it's quite unlikely that League players are talking about musical composition mid-game.

KrynnˉDec 21, 20185 votes

{quoted}

You're referring to a latin route, which is where the n-word comes from as well. And I think it's quite unlikely that League players are talking about musical composition mid-game.

Ofc, but I don't think the word is really that bad, if you're going to ban the r-word then you should be banning "dumb", "idiot" and "stupid" as those can be considered insensitive and all generally mean the same thing and can be used in the same context.

rujitraDec 22, 20183 votes

The N word came from the word "negro", which was not, in fact, a perjorative term. At best you could argue that over years it became a term used to look down on people of black skin tone, but in many places the term "negro" was used simply as the corresponding term to refer to someone as "white".

Romans VI XXIIIDec 22, 20181 votes

No it's not. People say it all the time, even as a friendly gesture.

"What up my N"

As an example.

TegashDec 23, 20182 votes

You gotta love the bad faith arguments people make in defense of their beloved slurs.

What was it again? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, guaranteed for everybody under the constitution?

"Mah freedoms" doesn't trump that, nor do your sour grapes.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 23, 20183 votes

This is hardly a bad argument. The N word is said ALL THE TIME in the black community, specially in the inner cities. It is said as an insult, a praise, a friendly gesture, and just said to say.

It's hardly considered a "bad word" unless some one that is out side the black community calls some one in it one.

TegashDec 24, 20183 votes

That's because it's what is called a "reclaimed slur." Much like how people in the queer community will amiably use f~~~~t. And yet people in the League community are banned for it because outside of that community, it is still, unequivocally, hate speech.

"The people who used to be oppressed by us now use a word positively that we intended to degrade them, that's not equal so we should get to use it too."

This argument is in bad faith. Although I assume you already know this because you've been trolling all down this entire discussion.

Go back to /pol/ fam.

Romans VI XXIIIDec 24, 20183 votes

So what if its reclaimed, it does not change my statement at all. It's still 100% correct in that it is used positively and negatively.

Words that we consider curse words now where not 100 yrs ago. Languages change.

"The people who used to be oppressed by us now use a word positively that we intended to degrade them, that's not equal so we should get to use it too."

I have never suppressed any one, now I cant speak for you.

And apparently "trolling" = not believing what you do, and having a good counter arguement that all you can do is scream "troll"

Vlada CutDec 21, 20187 votes

Can't even say word smartass aymore without snowflakes getting offended. :I At least I don't cry when someone tells me to end myself.

ArakadiaDec 22, 20181 votes

Wow dude you sound like some badass.

Vlada CutDec 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Wow dude you sound like some badass.

Oh nooo someone might get offended now!

NipNapperDec 22, 20185 votes

Hot take: we should make the r-word zero tolerance on both the boards AND in game. It’s been used as a slur against those with disabilities. It should be treated as such.

Jo0oDec 22, 20181 votes

I’m potentially fine with that, but boards should reflect game, not vice versa.

DrCyanideDec 21, 20183 votes

I'll agree with this point, it's a lot easier to keep the zero tolerance phrases the same in both the Boards and in game. If the Boards has a stricter zero tolerance system than the game then there needs to be a way to see raw chat logs for Player Behavior to know what's actually Zero Tolerance.

saltranDec 21, 20183 votes

What is the r word?

I'm missing something.

Jo0oDec 21, 20183 votes

Well, I can't actually spell it out any more =P

The word implying that somebody is mentally challenged or slow, starting with an 'r'.

saltranDec 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Well, I can't actually spell it out any more =P

The word implying that somebody is mentally challenged or slow, starting with an 'r'.

Aaaah of course, in fact the first time that I was banned (or the second, I'm not sure) from the Boards for 2 weeks was for calling someone that word and some others.

foristDec 22, 20182 votes

Not like it matters what is censored and isn't tbh. There are many other substitutes for the word r_etarded. If your word choice gets censored just edit it and change it, it's not like you are getting punished for typing bad words on here.