Is moderation affected by the popularity of an opinion?

FixHealsRemoveGW·Aug 8, 2018·8 votes·3,863 views

I am raising this question because of threads like:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GsmjuocR-wtf-riot-yasuo-changes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/I8PcKw9a-yasuo-has-been-the-most-banned-champion-for-months-now

That appear as "hot" on a daily basis because they contain popular opinions that get upvoted. But the posts are extremely low-effort and non-constructive. (and yes I reported them for that)

I recently TRIED to create a thread were I wanted to take the other side, which is that Yasuo and Zoe (probably one of the - if not the - most hated champions) could actually be buffed because their winrates are low.

I mentioned the win rates and I said:

Change my mind!

I was really curious how users would react to this and which arguments they would use. Unsurprisingly I got a lot of downvotes and borderline hate messages and only one user I started discussing with.

Until this happened:

Hey FixHealsRemoveGW,

We've recently removed your post for violating the Boards Universal Rules and sub-board guidelines, which prohibit the posting of low-effort and non-constructive content.

Your removed content:

Zoe and Yasuo should be buffed

While we appreciate your enthusiasm and can understand how you could want to get your idea out there as quickly as possible, we ask that you spend a bit more time on your post and keep your content constructive.

While we aren't taking any actions against your account at this time, please keep in mind that continued violation of the Boards Universal Rules and sub-board guidelines may result in future punishments.

If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via:

The NA Boards Discord The Discuss the Boards sub-board Best, Wuks

You see the difference is that I specifically encouraged the readers to change my mind and discuss and I kept it objective by looking at the winrates first. Surely the post was minimalistic, but that didn't bother me because it was unique by not just confirming what everyone has been saying all the time. And to be honest I didn't want to invest more time because I totally expected to just drown in hate comments and downvotes with no discussion happening at all. I am not afraid to have a different opinion but I value my time and I don't want to waste it.

So I understand why you could remove that thread, seems fair enough.

But I have to wonder, did you just remove it because so many users reported it, not for being low-effort, but because they hated it and just wanted it gone?

I imagine you get a lot of reports coming in and it makes sense to sort them by mass to get the more important ones done first, but you kinda have to take into account that some threads will get reported a lot simply because they were unpopular, because this is what users do, I can imagine it's the same like reporting somebody ingame because you didn't like how the played, which also happens a lot.

In my opinion it's just as easy to check the "hot topics" from time to time and take out the trash and you should do that because the board has way too many users that don't want to engage in an honest discussions and they shouldn't be allowed to have influence on moderation too.

Or in other words it looks like you are supporting circlejerks (indirectly).

10 Comments

ModThe DjinnAug 8, 20186 votes

In this case the reason for the different responses is probably related to the tone you used in the "change my mind" part of the post. That tends to be viewed as the equivalent of "I'm looking for an argument" rather than "I'm looking for a discussion," whereas the others don't really have quite the same "come at me" feeling.

I'm not sure I'd have personally removed it, but our moderators are allowed their discretion, and I'm not entirely sure this was an incorrect removal. The two threads you cited are things that might also have gotten removed if we had had someone catch them early enough, but, after a certain point, discussion can override a post that would normally be removed for low content because now there IS meaningful discussion on the thread. I think yours was a bit borderline on the content of the responses, which may contributed to its removal.

We do have plans to work on some changes to Gameplay that should help resolve these cases though.

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 8, 20182 votes

The two threads you cited are things that might also have gotten removed if we had had someone catch them early enough, but, after a certain point, discussion can override a post that would normally be removed for low content because now there IS meaningful discussion

But that's exactly the problem, just because there is a certain mass of comments you are making an exception. Popular threads like these will always reach that mass faster than unpopular ones.

The mere existence of these kind of threads is even seen as confirmation.

Everyone is saying it, the boards are full of it, so it must be true...right?

That's even more reason to be very strict.

ModThe DjinnAug 8, 20183 votes

{quoted}Everyone is saying it, the boards are full of it, so it must be true...right?

It's more like "we'd have likely removed this earlier, but does it look like there is some solid discussion here that emerged before we could take action on this?"

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 8, 20181 votes

Everyone is saying it, the boards are full of it, so it must be true...right?

That's what users use as arguments, I've seen it many times.

PS: Whatever makes it into "hot" with enough upvotes despite being unconstructive or even disinformative becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy. Why is it self fullfilling? Because at one point the majority only reads what they want to read and anyone who tries to address their issue with a more differentiated approach will be greeted with disrespect and zero tolerance. So the prophecy becomes reality.

Exactly this happened with the "too much damage" prophecy.

Somebody just told me that Riot said: Damage is too high

and linked me this

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/yTorNEcE-quick-gameplay-thoughts-august-3

So I look at it and I can'T help but note that Riot never said this, because they only said that burst damage is too high on average.

For pointing that out I am being called delusional.

They read what they want to read, they twist whatever Riot told them to get their confirmation because they can't accept anything else at this point.

And this carries over to the next "discussion":

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zqEVteXz-riot-you-cant-say-damage-is-to-high-and-then-buff-yasuos-damage-right-after?comment=0016000000000000

Riot, you cant say damage is to high and then buff Yasuo's damage right after.

(this is btw another thread that probably could have been removed but wasn't removed because the popularity prevented it and there are more coming)

These circlejerks are like a virus and there are no winners. Game knowledge of players suffers. Riot's reputation suffers. The negativity is getting overwhelming and ends up affecting everyone. So why do they not get removed?

I guess reasonable people are just not welcome anymore... or I should say they are only welcome when they agree which kinda defeats the whole purpose of reason...but whatever.

You keep saying that you have plans. I don't see how seperating the gameplay into serious discussions and rants is gonna change anything. You would still have to do a lot of work. These kind of threads won't just be posted in "rants" because the writers don't want to devalue their own content and they will still get lots of upvotes and on the surface many comments might even look like a discussion, even if everyone is just in denial and trying to indirectly offend each other. So you have the same problem again.

This has been going on way too long and you will have to take some very extreme ( and unpopular) measures at some point if you ever want to deal with it.

DrCyanideAug 8, 20183 votes

Just going to second The Djinn on "Change my mind!" posts. Every time I've seen them on the board the person creating them has no interest in actually changing their mind, they just argue then walk away from comment threads when the other person raises points they can't contend with,

Shukr4nAug 8, 20181 votes

Ehe..dude.. that s the most disappointing thing about moderation.

Someone can offend u on forum out of the blue but gets only your report, u reply him saying he s.ineducated (literal wording) and.get moderated because offensive(basic common language vs offences lose kappa)

Problem is volunteers moderate by feelings not by rules

Beatrice fallsAug 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ehe..dude.. that s the most disappointing thing about moderation.

Someone can offend u on forum out of the blue but gets only your report, u reply him saying he s.ineducated (literal wording) and.get moderated because offensive(basic common language vs offences lose kappa)

Problem is volunteers moderate by feelings not by rules

https://i.gyazo.com/56911ac4068af994fb6cbb9e0a38a67d.png

Rofl please

Hèntaî Aug 14, 20181 votes

Bruh

PaíntchipAug 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I am raising this question because of threads like:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GsmjuocR-wtf-riot-yasuo-changes

or

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/I8PcKw9a-yasuo-has-been-the-most-banned-champion-for-months-now

That appear as "hot" on a daily basis because they contain popular opinions that get upvoted. But the posts are extremely low-effort and non-constructive. (and yes I reported them for that)

I recently TRIED to create a thread were I wanted to take the other side, which is that Yasuo and Zoe (probably one of the - if not the - most hated champions) could actually be buffed because their winrates are low.

I mentioned the win rates and I said:

I was really curious how users would react to this and which arguments they would use. Unsurprisingly I got a lot of downvotes and borderline hate messages and only one user I started discussing with.

Until this happened: The Discuss the Boards sub-board Best, Wuks

You see the difference is that I specifically encouraged the readers to change my mind and discuss and I kept it objective by looking at the winrates first. Surely the post was minimalistic, but that didn't bother me because it was unique by not just confirming what everyone has been saying all the time. And to be honest I didn't want to invest more time because I totally expected to just drown in hate comments and downvotes with no discussion happening at all. I am not afraid to have a different opinion but I value my time and I don't want to waste it.

So I understand why you could remove that thread, seems fair enough.

But I have to wonder, did you just remove it because so many users reported it, not for being low-effort, but because they hated it and just wanted it gone?

I imagine you get a lot of reports coming in and it makes sense to sort them by mass to get the more important ones done first, but you kinda have to take into account that some threads will get reported a lot simply because they were unpopular, because this is what users do, I can imagine it's the same like reporting somebody ingame because you didn't like how the played, which also happens a lot.

In my opinion it's just as easy to check the "hot topics" from time to time and take out the trash and you should do that because the board has way too many users that don't want to engage in an honest discussions and they shouldn't be allowed to have influence on moderation too.

Or in other words it looks like you are supporting circlejerks (indirectly).