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Forward discussions require forward thinking

Glamorous Rammus·8/31/2019, 10:46:18 PM·2 votes·5,466 views

DISCLAIMER:

There are people that do appreciate and respect how Riot handles things, specifically reports. And that's awesome, we all have our own views. I believe we are all one giant brain, separated by an illusion, and truly part of a "collective consciousness", but we all have our own observations that are like independent ideas inside a single mind. Kind of a ramble of a disclaimer, but I want you to know when you read this, I actually DO value your opinions- I just hope we can all learn to value each other's and have more forward discussions, I believe we can have a better impact on what Riot needs to do if we can have better conversations with each other.

Forward Thinking:

So if you don't recognize my name, I'm pretty outspoken against "rules". I've always been labeled as "insubordinate", I just see rules as a way to restrict good-intentioned people. So when I discuss on Boards about, basically, "the rules suck"- I expect people to disagree, and state their opinions. Unfortunately, there is no discussion. When someone disagrees, they simply state the stance we already know exists and add nothing to justify the stance given. There seems to be a lack of forward thinking in many of these responses. Simply "copy pasting" the rule book doesn't add to the conversation. It actually brings the conversation backwards. Look at it like this- When someone posts about "X Rule" should not exist. A proper response is not to go backward and say "X is a rule". Saying, "X Rule should not exist", has already observed that "X is a rule". Basically, the person is saying, "X is a rule that exists, and this is why it shouldn't exist." Reposnding to that statement with "X is a rule" literally does nothing to facilitate a forward discussion, it just repeats what's already been stated.

Please, we all need to take the time to read what someone is saying. And not just to form a response. We should read the information a second time if we need to. "Read that again". And if we can see that person's perspective, it helps to always acknowledge their points before debating them if we still disagree. Myself included of course.

Ok?

16 Comments

ModUlanopo8/31/2019, 11:35:09 PM8 votes

When someone posts about "X Rule" should not exist. A proper response is not to go backward and say "X is a rule". Saying, "X Rule should not exist", has already observed that "X is a rule". Basically, the person is saying, "X is a rule that exists, and this is why it shouldn't exist." Reposnding to that statement with "X is a rule" literally does nothing to facilitate a forward discussion, it just repeats what's already been stated.

At the same time, it's not helpful to exclude discussion about why a rule exists when debating whether or not that rule should exist. It's also not helpful to exclude discussion about the specifics of a rule.

GatekeeperTDS9/1/2019, 2:27:32 AM4 votes

And if we can see that person's perspective, it helps to always acknowledge their points before debating them if we still disagree.

Discussion is wonderful. However, you have a history of not being open to what other people are saying, and you come off as belligerent. Be proud of your insubordination all you want, but you're fighting a losing fight against Riot's "rules." They are allowed to have their rules. No amount of bickering and arguing is going to convince a private organization that their Code of Conduct for players is bad. You are in a very, very, vocal minority.

When someone posts about "X Rule" should not exist. A proper response is not to go backward and say "X is a rule".

You don't get to dictate how other people have a discussion, just as you don't like to be told what to do.

And here's the other thing - you seem to be under the false belief that at the end of a discussion, all parties involved come away in agreement. That is not what happens in every discussion.

AeroWaffle9/1/2019, 4:44:24 AM3 votes

If the question is, "Why are my threads where I insult mods getting removed"

Then, "Personally attacking people is against the rules" is an appropriate answer. Just because the person is a mod doesn't mean the rule no longer applies.

If you feel like the board shouldn't have a rule about personally attacking people that's a different discussion.

ModPrandine9/1/2019, 10:10:15 AM3 votes

Wanting to have a discussion about something is fine, provided all parties involved are actually willing to listen and be at least somewhat open to other ideas. The problem with you however is that you seem to have a "my way or the highway" type of mindset and are quick to resort to things like insults and name-calling whenever someone disagrees with you. Having a civil discussion =/= lashing out at any and all non-Yesman answers, and no discussion can be had when one or more sides are not willing to remain at least somewhat civil in the face of disagreement or opposing ideas/statements. Being against certain rules and wanting to change them is fine, but lashing out when ones way isn't immediately given is not fine.

Modl Ryden l9/5/2019, 2:04:39 AM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glamorous Rammus,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=byNaeKqg,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-08-31T22:46:18.244+0000)

I just see rules as a way to restrict good-intentioned people.

If people have good intentions, then there wouldn't be a need to break any rules at all.

Anyone can have good intention if they say they have it. But it takes a level head to be able to display good intention. Mentioning you have good intentions is the equivalent of mentioning you're a nice guy. Everyone on the internet knows that the nice guy meme ultimately means they were never nice to begin with. If you have good intentions, people will pick up on it, you shouldn't have to say that you do.

So when I discuss on Boards about, basically, "the rules suck"- I expect people to disagree, and state their opinions. Unfortunately, there is no discussion. When someone disagrees, they simply state the stance we already know exists and add nothing to justify the stance given.

The discussion is in the hands of both the OP and the people who comment. If people want to participate they will participate. You shouldn't have to expect people to reply and actively converse. If someone wants to converse they will. There really isn't a way to force people to talk and people shouldn't have to be forced to talk.

Secondly, give your OP a sound argument. It shouldn't have to provoke a group of people, it shouldn't have to provoke the mods, it shouldn't have to provoke Riot. If you have to do any of those then chances are it's a rant and should belong in rant.

Please, we all need to take the time to read what someone is saying. And not just to form a response. We should read the information a second time if we need to. "Read that again". And if we can see that person's perspective, it helps to always acknowledge their points before debating them if we still disagree. Myself included of course.

This circles back to my comment on not having to provoke readers. If I feel provoked when reading an OP, I don't feel inclined to read at all and instead reply with my own thoughts and tell you about how wrong you are.

But again, not everyone is forced to read and reply to a post. If someone didn't understand what you were getting at then shrug it off and move on. Not everyone has to see eye to eye but also not everyone has to be commenting in mean spirit. Just don't be a jerk, that is all anyone is asking of anyone.

DBS Ronovon9/1/2019, 2:48:15 AM1 votes

Perma bans should not exist. I advocate it be a fine instead.