Skip to content

A crazy idea to possibly improving the Boards.

Electro522··7 votes·2,646 views

Alright, bear with me, for this is kind of a doozy.

At the time of writing, there is a thread on the front page that explains that Boards are not meeting their expectations, and this is due to both the users and Riot. It is a very well made post, and if you haven't read it already, I highly suggest you do.

However, one of our Mods, KempyreanPirate commented on the thread saying that he (and likely the entire Boards team) is stuck at how to improve the Boards from a technical standpoint.....and I don't blame him. This is not an easy issue to fix, and will likely take alot of brainstorming from several different people.

And this is where my idea comes in.......but do remember that it is just that: an idea. To be honest, I'm not even sure if this would be even possible due to possible tech limitations. I suppose the Boards are fairly simple from a coding standpoint, so doing something like this might be out of our realm....

.....but it doesn't hurt to at least try, right?

Anyway, this idea of mine is split into 3 concise changes, starting with the current system the Boards works under.




#The Current System

Of my 3 part idea, this part is by far the simplest to implement........because I'm basically changing nothing......at all.

Instead, all I am going to do is introduce a maximum character limit for both threads and comments......around the 2500 to 3000 character limit. This is much longer than you think, and should provide plenty of room in order to get points across in a concise manner. It will still have the upvote/downvote system it currently uses, the current comment system, and current formatting system.

Now, you might be saying "But...Electro....doesn't this hinder discussion, doing the exact opposite of what we're trying to achieve?", and you would be completely correct, but this is where my next part makes things interesting.




#Presentations

Back when Facebook came out, it had a "Note" system. These "notes" were meant to be much longer than your average Facebook post, allowing for a much more detailed conversation to take place. Unfortunately, it never really took off.

Twitter had something very similar pop up with Twitlonger. I believe that this was a 3rd party website that allowed Twitter users to easily send out a much longer tweet than what the Twitter system will allow. Unlike Facebook's Note system, this is still used to a fair margin by several people.

My "Presentation" system is very similar to this. These "Presentations" will be meant to be very detailed and long discussions on whatever the writer wants, just like a normal thread. However, unlike a normal thread, these presentations will have a minimum 5000 character limit. If your Presentation happens to be under that limit, you cannot publish it. But, it will have no character maximum limit, allowing you to write several pages on whatever you want. The comments on the Presentation will also have a minimum character limit of around 500......and this is much less than you may think. (Just this paragraph alone, not counting this sentence, has a count of 601)

These Presentations will not be showcased in the same way that threads currently are. Instead, they will have their own little section at the top of any sub-board. For example, on the Front page, you will have the top 5 current Presentations side by side in little boxes. In these boxes will have the first 500 characters of the Presentation, along with the title up above the box. If you are having trouble picturing what I am trying to explain, think of how Google presents it's "Top Stories" when you look something up.

https://i.imgur.com/1myW7Pm.png?2 ######Blocked out the titles to avoid political discussions cropping up

It would look similar to that, except it will just have text. See where I'm going?

Now, to avoid the situations where someone will just spam the same thing over and over and over until they get to 5000 characters, these Presentations will first have to be approved by a moderator. In order to make it quick to where mods can sort through them quickly (in case that there are a ton of them), there could be just a simple button at the top of the Presentation saying "Approve" or "Deny". If any happen to slip through somehow, there will still be the report option.

Once the Presentation is approved by a Mod, it is then published in it's respective category that writer chose......just like a thread. Then, we come to how they get to that top spot.




#The Grading System

This system will be an alternative to the upvote/downvote system, and it will only apply to the Presentations (though, I am more than happy to talk about introducing this sytem in general).

Presentations will have an option of 5 "grades". To keep things fun, we'll follow the gaming grading system: S, A, B, C, D.

Each grade will have a point value attributed to it:

S: 25 A: 20 B: 15 C: 10 D: 5

The more points a Presentation gets within a certain timeframe, the higher it will rise up the ranks. However.......there is a catch.

Each Presentation will have 3 different point scales: A user point scale, a Moderator point scale, and a Riot point scale. The point value I showed above is the user point scale, and each grade (except D) that comes from the user point scale gives the least amount of points.

The Moderator Scale S: 45 A: 35 B: 25 C: 15 D: 5

The Riot Scale S: 65 A: 50 B: 35 C: 20 D: 5

The reason why the user scale is the smallest, and the Riot scale can get to more than double the points that the user scale can give is because there are simply a HELL of alot more users than Rioters....so, they get a more powerful say in the number of points a Presentation gets.

I know, I know, you're now saying "But there are more Rioters than Mods, so, why don't the mods have more power than Riot?" Well, it's simple: Mods aren't Rioters. That said, they are, probably by a very wide margin, the most active people on the Boards. Very rarely do you see a thread that doesn't have at least 1 comment from a Mod. So, I wouldn't be surprised that every Presentation will get a grade from a Mod.

Now, how the Presentations will rise up to the front page will be determined by it's overall point score. That said, in order to get an idea of which scale is giving the most points, there will be a little graphic on the side (probably where the upvotes and downvotes would normally go) that shows How many points each scale is giving, along with it's overall score. For example:

R: 125 M: 85 U: 340 O: 550

One last thing I would like to point out....you might be wondering why the D grade is the same across all scales, and why there is no 0 point value. This is to avoid abuse cases, on all 3 sides (Rioter, Mod, and User). Yes, I understand that not giving a grade is the same as giving a 0 point value grade, but, there really is no way to avoid that. However, even if someone gives a grade, it is guaranteed to have some points, and rise slightly. Will it rise as quickly as a Presentation that is constantly getting S grades? No, but it will have some point value attributed to it.




And that's it! Yeah, I know......it's crazy.....but I warned you, did I not?

Like I said, I don't even know if this possible from a coding standpoint. If any mods would like to chime in on that aspect, please do. I'm genuinely curious.

As for everyone else, feel free to give as much feedback as possible. As I said at the start of the thread, fixing the Boards will not be easy, and it certainly can't be done by a small group of people. This would need to be a community project, spearheaded by the Mods. So, please, throw at me everything you got!


TL;DR

Sorry.....I'm not writing one.

I don't even know how I would write one in this case.

16 Comments

ModEvangele2 votes

Nami Wow! I can see you definitely have passion for helping the Boards become a better place. Ive forwarded this to our team internally to have a chat about. They are definitely interesting ideas and not something I've really heard before. :) I would expect some friendly moderator posts on here, perhaps not right away but definitely some ppl coming to chat about it in a general sense. Not saying this implementation is possible or the correct course (not saying it isnt either) but definitely gives us something to chew on.

Really appreciate these types of posts, they are wonderful to read and really give us a nice basis for conversations about the Boards' future. If you have more ideas like this, keep em coming!

HalcyonDweller1 votes

It's an interesting idea, and worth thinking about, but having just finished reading your idea, I'm not sure about how I feel about it. Kind of an up-in-the-air feeling i suppose...?

hoyohai1 votes

I agree, but what about comments with 3001-4999 characters? Where do they go?

Electro5221 votes

What do you mean?

Comments on threads will have a 2500 maximum character limit.

And comments on Presentations will have a 1000 minimum character limit.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant a 500 character minimum...not 1000

hoyohai1 votes

Oh sorry I thought you said a minimum of 5000

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

This is great presentation of a unique idea.

huehuehuehue

Anyways (jokes aside), this is a pretty neat thought. I really appreciate you taking the time to make an argument for something new and different. I think it's an interesting take to ask for moderator approval on a system to even be allowed to post; that's certainly not something that I would expect most users to want. I'm glad that some people are taking the idea to brainstorm this pretty seriously! I think we need to work together to come up with some new ideas to get around some of the issues that people have with the current setup, and that's certainly something this thread is doing.

I do want to say that I take slight issue with your wording about me up there; I wouldn't say we're stuck necessarily. I don't want people to get the impression that we've given up on improving things, because we certainly haven't. I get what you're saying, but if anyone comes around to see my reply, I want them to know that we still have a lot of passion for improving the Boards and we're definitely not out of ideas. But, like I said, I think it's difficult to have too much brainstorming in a forum format, so bring on the ideas!

Electro5222 votes

I never at all wanted to imply that you guys had given up......just that you didn't know how to take the next step forward.

Which I don't blame you at all for.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yeah, sure thing. No hard feelings.

Many of us do have some ideas about how to proceed, but I don't think that's a good excuse to skip the step where we talk to the community about it. That's the main thing.

After all, that was sort of what that previous thread was about, right? I don't want to go making changes without collecting and commenting on ideas that come from other Boards regulars.

That's especially true now that we've been at this awhile; we carried some of our ideas from pre-mod days with us into the role, but 6 months later, we need to make sure that we're still listening to what non-volunteers think of the platform. If the changes we make only make sense to us, they won't ultimately make Boards better.

This idea, in particular, shares some characteristics with other ideas I have kicked around. I find it really encouraging that you independently came up with some concepts that I already liked, and we'll see what the future holds! No promises, but keep talking. These threads are great.

Electro5221 votes

If there is one part of this that I would like you guys to really think about is actually the Grading system.

I can understand the technical limitations on the likes of the whole Presentation system, but the Grading system should be relatively simple, correct? When I thought it up, I came to really like it, because it gives the representation that Riot is reading threads. Sure, right now they can upvote, downvote just like anyone else, but no one can tell which upvote came from who. Riot keeps saying that they do read the threads, but they have no way to prove it, and due to how rarely they comment, no one believes them when they say they do.

The Grading system gives them an inconspicuous way of showing that they did read it, and either approve or disapprove of it, without the possible risk of receiving any backlash. It fixes the problem of people thinking that Riot doesn't listen, while also fixing the problem of Riot just not wanting to come onto the Boards.

And yes, I understand that there will still be people who want an actual response.Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do on that part except try and make the Boards a more inviting place.......maybe if people see that Riot is actually reading their threads, the vitriol towards Riot will lessen a bit.

Do you see any problems with the Grading system?

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Do you see any problems with the Grading system?

Implementation is the main thing. This is something that's going to require a lot of work to get all the menus and choices into a format that makes sense.

To be honest with you, the most interesting ideas you have here (to me) are

  1. mod approved content
  2. Rioter transparency just for visibility

I think just those two things could be really great additions, but I'm honestly not the right guy to even ask if that's possible. I'm gonna pass along a lot of these thoughts that we're seeing and keep brainstorming with other volunteers about it.

As far as the grading system is concerned, several people have asked for updated/altered voting systems, and I would categorize the grading idea with those. It's an interesting thought, but it's definitely more involved than just removing voting, or even removing downvotes.

Teridax681 votes

When you wrote that previous thread criticizing the Boards, one of my main criticisms was that you had offered no suggestions on how to help them. This thread, I think, is more than adequate follow-up, and I thank you immensely for putting the time and effort into writing it.

Regarding the suggestion of presentations, I like the idea of forcing players to put effort into the content they put on the Boards. With that said, I also question the need to have an entirely separate format for this, and similarly I don't really see the advantage a letter grade would confer over the current voting system, particularly now that there's a color gradient. If the problem you want to address is that of low-effort threads, I think imposing a minimum character limit onto threads in certain spaces, namely Gameplay, could achieve the same purpose by establishing a cutoff point, one that could catch the larger portion of current problem threads and establish a clearer distinction between proper threads and spam.

Additionally, if what you're proposing with the letter grade is to put quality over quantity, then averaging all threads' voting scores based on the number of viewers could achieve just that (so thread scores would be expressed as a percentage, letter grade as you mentioned, or the like, rather than just a flat number). Personally, I think thread visibility should be based on the number of new people who recently participate via replies, rather than upvotes, and because of this I think it would help to do away with the voting system entirely, and instead change the Boards' visibility mechanics accordingly. That way, the most visible discussions would be the ones that generate the most diverse and prolific conversation, rather than the ones that generate the most agreement, and as such it could help limit the influence of cliques and echo chambers.

Electro5221 votes

I've already proposed a minimal character/word count before, but the mods basically shot it down almost it immediately. Their reasoning is that discussions can be started with minimal words, and they don't want to hinder that. I've even proposed a system where you can only upvote when you comment, which was also shot down. Reasoning for that is they don't want people just spamming "I agree/disagree" in every comment.

My idea for the presentations is not to force away the people who don't put effort into their posts, simply just add an alternative for those that do want to put effort into their posts, and provide a meaningful way of showcasing their work. If you post a really long thread that you put alot of time into, but post it at a bad time, or gets a single downvote, chances are, it's never seeing the light of day. These days, a thread needs at least 5 upvotes within the first hour in order to get to the bottom of the front page, let alone the top.

As for the grading system, I did mention it in my thread, but this is an alternative to remove the downsides of the upvote/downvote system. The way your supposed to use the current system is to upvote threads that contribute to discussion......but let's be honest, who really does that? The upvote/downvote system rewards favoritism. If something you don't like is in that thread, you try to downvote to keep it from being seen. I would implement the grading system to make it to where, even if you don't like the thread and give it a D grade, it still gets points regardless.

But not only that, it is also a system to prove to people that Riot are listening. They keep telling us they do, but all we can do is take their word for it. Sure, they can upvote, or downvote just like anyone else, but no one is shown that this happens. So, since no one can see that Riot is reading and listening, alot of people have begun to distrust Riot, especially since they don't comment as often. Also, it allows Rioters to chime into a conversation inconspicuously. They can show that they are listening without running the risk of being blasted left and right by everyone who is upset with the game.

Teridax681 votes

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=Z0RA8EYH,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-01-25T10:20:11.095+0000)

I've already proposed a minimal character/word count before, but the mods basically shot it down almost it immediately. Their reasoning is that discussions can be started with minimal words, and they don't want to hinder that.

As a former Warden, I can say that while this may have been a reason given to you, that reason is bullshit. While good discussions can certainly be started without having to write an essay, they nonetheless require a minimum of effort, and therefore a minimum character count that most low-effort posts do not approach. It is more likely that the real reason behind opposing this came from the technical limitations of the Boards, limitations that the mods do not have the power to fix, and that Riot doesn't want to put the resources into fixing.

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=Z0RA8EYH,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-01-25T10:20:11.095+0000)

I've even proposed a system where you can only upvote when you comment, which was also shot down. Reasoning for that is they don't want people just spamming "I agree/disagree" in every comment.

There is a spam report option for a reason. I get that the mods don't want to be swamped in reports, but the fact of the matter is that if such behavior were to occur, it wouldn't be different from the current trends of silent vote manipulation, which is much more insidious, and spammy upvote farm threads, which the mods are already slow to address. Such an option would, at the very least, shift toxic behavior towards something that would be easier to identify, isolate and address.

[{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=Z0RA8EYH,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-01-25T10:20:11.095+0000)

But not only that, it is also a system to prove to people that Riot are listening. They keep telling us they do, but all we can do is take their word for it. Sure, they can upvote, or downvote just like anyone else, but no one is shown that this happens. So, since no one can see that Riot is reading and listening, alot of people have begun to distrust Riot, especially since they don't comment as often. Also, it allows Rioters to chime into a conversation inconspicuously. They can show that they are listening without running the risk of being blasted left and right by everyone who is upset with the game.

This I'm completely in favor of, though I don't think it requires its own scale (particularly since you then put Riot in the uncomfortable position of having to rate player feedback, which can never be honest and uncontroversial at the same time). Simply adding an intermediary icon to show that a Rioter has read, but not posted in, a thread could already work wonders towards confirming the work Riot does in reading through player feedback. We already have an icon to indicate a red post, so having another icon at that exact same position that would appear once a Rioter read through a thread (which would automatically get replaced with the red post icon once a red post gets made) could already help assuage player concerns.

ModWuks4 votes

{quoted}

As a former Warden, I can say that while this may have been a reason given to you, that reason is bullshit. While good discussions can certainly be started without having to write an essay, they nonetheless require a minimum of effort, and therefore a minimum character count that most low-effort posts do not approach. It is more likely that the real reason behind opposing this came from the technical limitations of the Boards, limitations that the mods do not have the power to fix, and that Riot doesn't want to put the resources into fixing.

As a current Herald and the lead for the Boards Revamp project, I can tell you that we could definitely implement a system that checks for a character count and remove threads that don't meet a minimum from view. While I appreciate your contribution in discussions such as these, I'd like to please ask you to refrain from making incorrect or misleading statements citing your previous experiences within the program.

Teridax681 votes

My first reply to this post got removed for "potentially" breaching NDA, so I'll keep this brief and nonspecific: I know from personal experience that technical limitations on the same basic level as the one I brought up, and that you have replied to, exist, and I don't think one needs to have worked on the team to be aware of this either. If there is no limitation preventing the addition of a minimum character count limit (and one for future threads, not one to remove current threads), then that is perfect, but what your reply is saying is that the mod team effectively rejected out of hand an idea they did not even test. As a Boards user, I urge you to at least test a minimum character count, just like you tested disabling votes on the Swain VGU megathread, and see what kind of changes it generates, rather than simply lean towards the status quo.

More from Discuss the Boards

More by Electro522