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PB Rule Idea

rujitra·12/27/2018, 12:36:05 AM·2 votes·3,411 views

Opinions that are contrary to current punishment systems should be prohibited on threads where someone got a punishment valid under the current rules.

What this would mean is that if someone posts about their punishment/confused as to why they are punished, the following type of comments would be prohibited:

  • I don't think you should've been punished/that's not toxic.
  • Riot's systems are wrong/bad
  • This is technically against the rules but you did nothing wrong.

And the like.

This would better help the Player Behavior board serve one of its' purposes - to assist people in understanding their punishments. Discussion about whether the systems are working right, whether policy should change, and the like are more than valid - but having those discussions when someone is confused about their punishment detracts from the ability to successfully help a player understand their punishment. Of course this prohibition would extend very narrowly only to threads by players inquiring about "why is this log punishable" or similar - threads such as "why is X behavior punishable" when they are not a player inquiring about their specific logs would not be affected by this.

Rationale: Threads that are players complaining about their punishment are best served by explaining why they were punished under the current system. It is not important to these players whether the system is valid or not - because that will not change their punishment. Discussions about systems are great, but until changes are made, the rules apply as they are written or understood now - which is what players who are punished should be helped to understand during threads about their punishment.

15 Comments

ModUlanopo12/27/2018, 1:40:59 AM3 votes

Hey Rujitra,

I get what you're going for here, but I think it's ultimately not a good idea.

  • On some level, people have to be allowed to be wrong on the internet. People say stupid things all the time. Some of that is "good stupid" because it forces us to refine our arguments and can sometimes lead to change.
  • Blanket bans on dissent are also problematic from a free expression perspective. Not only would this policy create the impression we're forcing people to toe the party line with regard to responses, it would also have a chilling effect on questions. No one's going to ask if there can be only one answer.
  • The two main purposes of the Player Behavior board are the passing of information, which can be done dispassionately and objectively, and giving people an opportunity to talk about what happened to them and where they go from here, which is rather the opposite. There must always be room for confusion and disagreement, else a FAQ would do.

Speaking of FAQ's. I wrote the original FAQ on behavior systems. I did it mostly so I would have ready, consistent responses to genuine questions. It wasn't until later that it became a semi-official resource, which actually wasn't something I wanted. The first time I was asked if the thread could be pinned, I said no. Another person, someone no longer with Riot, pinned it anyhow. That thread was part of the inspiration for the Arbiters Program, which later became Volunteer Moderation, so I guess it worked out all right in the end, but it definitely wasn't something I wanted at the time.

The upshot of this is that I've changed since I wrote that. Current me would never bother with a FAQ. That's mostly because Keyru convinced me that there's a better way to reach people and that's being open and connecting with them. It's often difficult and I frequently fail, but I think that's more than made up for with the good we've done over the years. We wouldn't have been capable of that had we closed ourselves to new ideas and new perspectives.

The people you're attempting to address will always be around. It's the nature of the internet and of people in general. As frustrating as they can be, they do serve a purpose in the ecology of the board.

Hotarµ12/27/2018, 12:52:31 AM2 votes

I agree with this but I'd like to suggest that saying something is potentially undeserving of a certain punishment tier should be permitted.

On the last post I commented on, the OP had a pretty heinous chat log — but not one that would normally warrant a 14 day ban so I commented objectively on it. I also recommended he file a support ticket.

In situations where there may be a potential error or there may be grounds for dispute, we should mention that if it may help the OP. Mistakes do happen with automated systems.