On Having a Discussion On the Boards

Hey all, I wanted to make a post regarding good ways to have discussion on the Boards. Yes, I know this is probably a lost cause, but I can hope that at least one person will learn something from this.

Additional Premise: This guy has caused a lot of turmoil on these Boards, and I don't think he'll ever stop making turmoil until something changes. I'm not going to go into too many Yasuo-specifics in this post, but I wanted to give a little background as to why I think Yasuo is actually a good point to work from when trying have better discussions. Yasuo has a lot of love and hatred towards him, where both sides can have very impassioned opinions about him. I'm not implying that having passionate opinions is bad, but it's important to learn how to translate those opinions into discussion and not let them get in the way of logic, analysis, and healthy discussion. If you want to read more about Yasuo, I'm going to post something in the near future with deep analysis of his identity, health, etc. But enough about Yasuo for now.

Another disclaimer, this is less so of an argument-making topic and more of a discussion-having topic. You don't have to win or lose in a discussion. That doesn't mean that, if your opinions do happen to change as a result of what you read, you have somehow lost something. The only thing you can do in a good discussion is gain.

Yet another disclaimer, I do not believe this post should be applied to all Boards posts. Even if the category isn't Memes and Games, snarky and comical one-liners and jokes are the heart of humor. This post pertains to actual discussion.

Rules of Discussion I am no debate expert, and I will not claim to be, but all it takes is common sense and courtesy to have a discussion. Additionally, "Rules" in this case implies more of a guideline nature of these statements, and are in no way law or declaration.

1. Keep a somewhat open mind. I'm sure everyone has heard it when they are going to be faced with opposing viewpoints, but it's all too true, but I wanted to make a key change to what is normally suggested. What you should not do in a discussion is not have an opinion and not stick by it. Without an opinion, you cannot make points for the discussion. I know most Board-goers have no fear of sharing their opinions, but a good mentality to have is to understand that you have your opinion and everyone else has theirs, and that is completely the way it should be. When I encourage having a somewhat open mind, I am essentially saying you should certainly lay out your opinion in a civil way, but it is also perfectly fine, if not good, if your opinion is changed or altered by the discussion. There is no winning or losing a discussion. There is only gaining more points of view and becoming more enlightened if done correctly. I think that one of the most fatal flaws to nearly all Boards users (myself certainly included) is the fact that we don't like to lose. It's no surprise, as we are all playing this competitive game, and this rule can also majorly apply to taking in-game criticism, but that's another discussion. Back to the point, do not worry about "losing" a discussion. If your opinion was changed and you see something differently now as a result of good discussion, that is the best thing that can happen. There is no pride in healthy discussion. Conversely, don't worry about "winning" the discussion either. Just because you didn't change someone's opinion doesn't mean your point of view (if well-made) is not valuable.

2. Refrain from using directed "You" in the discussion. This applies most importantly to Gameplay discussions. The discussion is about the game, not the discusees(?). It is best not to try to direct the word "you" at someone when trying to make a point for two main reasons.

1. It turns the discussion toward a person, not an idea, and that prompts a petty argument between the two people. Additionally, it often incites defensiveness. For example, no matter how sloppy or ill-made someone's point is, it is generally best not to respond with statements like "You don't understand", or "You're wrong", or "You don't know what you're talking about". Will you run into someone who makes poor points or makes a statement that is blatantly wrong (ex. Teemo is a melee champion)? Yes, and you should address those fallacies or points without directing it at them. "Teemo is not a melee champion" is a better response than "You think Teemo is a melee champion?". Also, if it does end up devolving into directed "you's" back and forth, we are worried more about winning and losing than having discussion. When someone is addressed negatively with "you", they feel the need to respond and counter. We aren't going for winning/losing arguments.
2. It detracts from the subject at hand. This kind of piggybacks off the first reason, but it is important to emphasize that using directed "you" shifts the focus away from the topic being discussed. If we are discussing what we think should be changed about Yasuo to make him less frustrating while keeping him fun to play, and someone writes "You wouldn't be biased/have that opinion if you weren't a Yasuo main", they have taken the discussion away from Yasuo and attempted to focus it on the fact that someone is a Yasuo main and therefore is biased. Quick note; bias exists in discussions, but it does not hurt them the same way that it does arguments. If I (personally) am discussing a Vladimir post calling for him to be gutted, I am absolutely going to voice my opinion that he shouldn't be, and that is partially due to the fact he is my main. That is okay in a discussion, as long as my reasons against gutting him are well-spoken and backed up. Using a general/hypothetical "you" is, as goes without saying, perfectly okay. "Let's say you are playing [x]..." is obviously fine.

3. For the sake of serious discussion, limit sarcasm unless it absolutely strengthens your point and is NOT being used in conjunction with "You". I think this is another major duo problem here; people (especially myself) love sarcasm. If you are even a tad bit clever, sarcasm is a quick and effective way to throw your opponent off guard if it is appropriate. But remember, discussion is not argument. My biggest advice and recommendation with the use of sarcasm in serious discussion is this; If it has any use of targeting (you or any other implied target), do not use it. If you are not sure if it will actually strengthen your argument instead of targeting, do not use it. The best use of sarcasm in discussion is when used on yourself. It lightens the mood. Use of sarcasm often prompts argument, so it's best to use it sparingly if at all. Make sure you also note that you are being sarcastic. This isn't like a trigger warning, but it is to make sure that other discussers understand you are being sarcastic.

4. Stay focused. Stay focused on what you say, stay focused on the topic. Absorb what everyone else has to say. This is perhaps the easiest, hardest, and most important step. This encompasses, in some way, most of the other points. If you stay focused on making your opinion well-expressed, reasonable, logical, and backed with some kind of evidence, you have already become a successful discusser. Focus on what is said about the topic. Focus on what you can learn from what other people are saying. Focus on yourself. Being a martial arts teacher, that is most often what I tell younger students to prevent arguments. If you focus on improving yourself and focus on mistakes you make, you will find success. The same goes with discussion; absorb any knowledge or information from others, but ultimately focus on making your discussion the best it can be.

5. Take "criticism". Embrace opposing views. While I don't think criticism is particularly the right word here, it works well enough. Because we aren't arguing and because we aren't targeting people, criticism in this case means "someone else pointing out flaws". This ties in nicely with having an open mind. If the guy who posts "Teemo is melee" is responded to with "Teemo is not melee. His attack range is 500", he should not try defend himself because he doesn't lose anything by being wrong. Instead, he gains knowledge that Teemo's attack range is 500. I understand this is kind of a silly example, but it should not be taken personally if someone suggests that something you have said flawed. As long as the person saying that is being civil and reasonably explaining why it is flawed, that is perfectly okay. I often find myself doing this with explaining why Yasuo's passive is the way it is (the critical strike part) and why are very subpar items on Vladimir now. If someone explains to you and it makes sense, you do not have to counter it. Remember, you aren't losing from that, you're gaining. Continuing with the Vlad example, instead of thinking "I have to think of something to counter his explanation" (assuming I lay it out well enough, don't worry I can do it pretty well with him ^w^), it's better to think "that makes sense. Maybe that's why I haven't seen as much success as I like" or "that makes sense. I'll go give that a try" or something as simple as "wow, I learned something new today".

6. Do not be afraid to ask for further explanation, and do not hesitate to give further explanation if asked. How can one learn if they do not question? I do see these posts pop up from time to time. "Why do people consider [X] to be overpowered?" may be the title, and the content may be "I'm not trying to defend [X], but I'm curious as to why so many people complain about them when I don't feel the same frustration." This is perfect. These are the best kind of discussion-sparkers, and questions with a similar tone can be asked within the discussion to achieve its ultimate goal; learning. I do not get upset when people ask why I build or don't build [x] item if they are legitimately curious because explaining it helps both parties; it helps remind me exactly why I am playing/building what I am and spreads that knowledge to others. Once more, I will use the personal Vladimir example. A couple of weeks ago, I was playing Vladimir and I believe my items were / or something of that nature. The Vi on the enemy team asked me "Why didn't you build Rylai's Vlad?" In my explanation to her, I essentially stated that Vladimir no longer has the drawn-out mage-bruiser playstyle that he did initially after the MYMU, and that now he functions more as an AoE burst mage with some additional bulk and powerful chunks of healing. I included the changes to his passive shifting back to more health for AP, Q AP ratio buffs, and E AP ratio buffs as my evidence to this. The Vi responded positively and thanked me for my explanation. If you do not understand something, ask about it. More importantly, if someone makes a rather odd, confusing, or unpopular point, do not dismiss it, but rather ask them for further explanation. Tell them what part that you are having trouble making sense out of, and hopefully they can shed more light on what they said.

Proper discussion is what ultimately leads to learning and growing, as well as addressing problems in the game. Arguments/debates don't really help us on the Boards because Riot has the final say in what happens, so a winning/losing environment is a moot point, and it is more helpful for them to read discussions than it is to read arguments. While these are, again, not set rules by any means, I hope that all of you who read them will at the very least keep them in mind the next time you feel the desire to have an actual discussion on the Boards.

If you made it all the way down this nightmarishly long post, I congratulate and thank you for reading it all. I do hope that I helped at least one person understand a little better about the nature of discussion, and to feel more comfortable in voicing their opinions and analyzing those of others. Any questions/clarification needed any of you have, I am happy to answer (if I'm awake).

--Hëmøphiliac