Knee-Jerk reaction to Maokai changes and some old complaints

The Drippy Sink·6/21/2014, 2:10:05 PM·5 votes·1,121 views

I get we're pushing him in a different direction, but I feel like there's a huge loss in power with the range nerf to Twisted Advance.

The damage and slow nerfs I can get around, but Twisted Advance being such a good initiation tool is what made Maokai threatening to begin with. What's the justification for this gap-closer now having shorter range than the auto-attack range of every ADC?

Next point: Sapling Toss

We got the slow on the EXPLOSION from this ability. So, what's the combo here? Toss a Sapling. Get the impact damage. Watch as the enemy runs away and the sapling chases them. Blows up, does nothing, and they're STILL out of range for W.

It has ALWAYS bothered me that the range on Sapling Toss and Twisted Advance were so different. I always felt Maokai's effective combo should have been: Throw E. Cast W on same target. E lands pretty close to the same time as Maokai rooting his target. E explodes while they're rooted. Land Q.

Of course, that probably would have been absurd if it was consistently easy to do, but Sapling Toss has a huge wind-up animation, the projectile travels slowly, and you only get half the damage most of the time, because it's pretty easy to outrun the little buggers after they land.

If we're getting a slow on the explosion to help close the gap for W, I think Saplings should detonate instantly if they hit a champion with the impact portion of the skill.

Maokai has always felt a little clumsy. I've enjoyed him regardless of his inconsistencies. I'm not too sure how I feel about the change to Twisted Advance and Sapling Toss.

I love the mana cost reductions, but couldn't we have just tried to put some mana sustain on his passive at some point? That was suggested left and right. I wonder if it was ever iterated and tested internally.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

19 Comments

Thanotos Omega6/21/2014, 3:08:49 PM2 votes

Maokai isn't supposed to be doing ganks like a normal Jungler he is a tank, He is supposed to help push the lanes and use TA to stop fleeing enemies, He trades deadly ganks for being a major force in team fights and sieging power,

Cerbearus6/21/2014, 6:31:47 PM2 votes

Maokai's Twisted Advance was basically a Vi ult on a low cd, it is what made him such a powerful early ganker. The range reduction is going to screw him...

Cerbearus6/21/2014, 7:02:19 PM2 votes

Ok so I just read a red post about changes not reflected in the tooltips.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/28os7s/620_pbe_update/cid6pv4

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/28os7s/620_pbe_update/cid4gao

Sapling movespeed now scales with Maokai's so we might actually be able to hit people with it now. Cast time on Twisted Advance was also removed for faster snares.

Riot said the main reason for reducing the range on W is because he is built to be a protector (his ult), but the good damage and range on W encouraged players to dive the backline where you cant protect your team anymore. The new one has reduced ranged and does % health damage instead of just a base, so you will actually do damage to the tankier frontline targets.

ModCaptainMårvelous6/21/2014, 7:53:38 PM1 votes

My problem is the %HP.

C'mon Riot, quit it with this bandaid fix to make tanks scary. It doesn't make them scarier, it just makes balancing them harder.

Angry Monster6/21/2014, 8:48:46 PM1 votes

Riot is on the wrong track personally.How does any of these changes help him? Lee, Elise, kzh are going to eat him alive in a lvl early game. Which again is my issue with him, I am never reasonably safe from invades.

Sure lower mana costs on E is nice but as a jungler you are never maxing E, so the values on and the scaling really mean nothing. I hate the fact the that riot assumes that u are going to get the 2nd round of damage on sapling explosion let alone hit the toss(very slow arc).

This is another case of riot doing anything but looking at the problems of the champ. THe major problems of Mao is that his early game is

1 subject to constant invades with no ability to respond

2 late game no impact.( meaning that tanking at 6 item builds is not effective and people are hitting this point even earlier than before)

3 cannot be self efficient against other junglers. (runs into a enemy 1v1 and loses always)

Mao is a burst tank in teh early game with out numbers to allow this burst to actually mean anything. He hits hard and does 300 to 400 damage in under a sec and then is punching, running away or hoping a team mate gets there. This is a death wish in solo Q.

KSHarrison6/22/2014, 4:54:06 PM1 votes

Not sure if mentioned yet, but a change on PBE I think has his ult moving with him instead of remaining stationary.