[Skarner follow-up] New passive direction - what are your thoughts?

RiotMorello·Apr 25, 2014·33 votes·52,665 views

Hey everyone!

One thing we've been talking a lot about is how we want to make sure is followed-through on to correct some things you guys called out in his rework. I won't recap the whole discussion as it's long, but our goals are;

Ensure Skarner's pattern is healthy, can be balanced, and allows for meaningful choices when fighting against him
Create (or somehow restore) Skarner's identity that players miss now - mainly that of the "inevitable predator", freight-train style play.
Make sure Skarner's strengths and weaknesses make sense.

With that, I wanted to shop two different ideas to players and get a read on which direction seems like the better set of tradeoffs to satisfy these goals. To be clear, this must be a tradeoff to meet goals 1) and 3), but which one we choose is heavily influenced by 2).

In both versions, his old passive would be removed, but the passive would be a passive on the Q (so it stays the same) Listed below. Other skill cooldowns likely lowered to match the fact that they don't get the passive. This keeps him out of total feast-or-famine, but allows some scaling/changes in power based on performance. In both versions:

Q: Skarner gains A/B/C% movement speed as he stacks up Q hits, for X seconds. This will help him stick when he reaches a target.

Now, for the two passive directions we're looking at.

Direction 1: Skarner is a premier freight-train with great stickiness and good control. His tradeoff is his damage pattern is less bursty/longer time-to-kill,

New Passive: Crystal Poison (name tbd) Spells apply stacks of poison to the enemy. After X stacks, the next auto-attack will do a (short) stun and bonus damage.

We're stoked on this because it adds into his training pattern
We have a cool animation and effect we can repurpose to make this awesome (stings you with his tail!)
Likely more healthy with his natural transition into late-game initiator

Direction 2: Skarner is a damage-oriented fighter with low utility. Gets no more control than on live, and does damage until transitioning into a late-game pick-tank.

New passive: After X spell hits, Skarner's next attack does +damage and heals him for Y.

Likely true damage
The more he trains, the more damage he does
Probably gets really bad if behind because damage is more granular and dependent on snowballing.

So this is what we're talking about right now. I wanted to come ask what you think about these - I have my opinion, but since we want to make this right, we wonder if damage, or the ability to train/control is MORE important to Skarner fans or potential Skarner fans.

511 Comments

M15t3rF15t3rApr 25, 201439 votes

I honestly like Direction 1 its more hist style to play i mean hes meant as a tank but hed then be able to be a tank/support

lightdragoon88Apr 26, 201439 votes

Viktor "Let me know when you are done working on Skarner. I have a Battlecast to finish."

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 25, 201416 votes

In either version of this change, the ramping movement speed on Q allows him to stick to a target once he is able to close. Feels good.

Honestly I would be pretty happy with either version.

hartarApr 25, 201427 votes

In my opnion the first is more Skarner,because he was always about control of the target,not to deal tons of damage.

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 25, 201419 votes

This is good to know, we wanted to be absolutely sure that the direction we choose is actually one that Skarner players would actually be excited about. Hopefully after the weekend we will have a really clear set of responses.

RiotRiot MortdogApr 25, 20142 votes

I am a little worried that the move speed on Q may be too similar to his old Q, just in reverse, and won't create a healthy game play pattern. I know the issue with the old Q was once he was on you, that was that.

TimjinApr 26, 20147 votes

The issue was more that you couldn't escape Skarner and whomever he was with. Early game permaslow is toxic because it removes all response other than sit and fight. Essentially,once you get ahead, the opponent just auto loses because they can't escape by any means. Movespeed allows Skarner to close, but eventually the opponent can make it to a safer area or allies.

Spirit Yordle 69Apr 26, 201415 votes

I Personally Like Direction 2 more. The movement speed boost sounds like it brings his stickness up Anyway. Iceborn Gauntlet is practically core on Skarner now so the permaslow effect is kinda there anyway. But His Heal only has a chance to come back in direction 2. I like the idea of Skarner as a tank as much as anyone but I feel like a short little stun wouldn't really cut it. Like if its like .5 stun then Direction 1 defintely sounds worse.

AS someone who actually used Skarners whole kit on the old character bringing back some of the sustain on Skarner as well as the stickness sounds way more satisfying. I liked to play Skarner as a laner and a jungler and I feel like Direction 2 is much better for helping him achieve this. I have always felt that Skarner was a Scrappy brawler that dives in picks off an important target and ensures their demise in teamfighting scenarios.

A Tiny amount of extra CC might make him better as a Peeler But I feel like direction 2 HELPS Skarner more through every part of the game with all the playstyles old Skarner could perform the Combined sustain and damage making him a greater threat and more difficult to kill. Anyway thats my opinion. I don't want to see some tiny lackluster CC when I could see meanful damage trades and sustain as an option on the table.

ZaphasApr 25, 201414 votes

Direction 1, hands down. Skarner is the kind of champ that doesn't really feel to me like a super damage dealer fighter. I like to see him as a Tanky McBeeftrain that wades into a fight, deals consistent damage, can initiate or peel, and is enough of a threat that you can't just ignore him.

That's what live Skarner lacks, the stickiness and long term power.

RiotJagApr 25, 201411 votes

I like that people really favor Direction 1 because I think that results in a more balanced version of Skarner. Keep in mind though that the Q damage on that guy would be lower than live (perhaps significantly so) to compensate for the awesome CC-focused passive he'd be getting. Hopefully that helps guide your expectations on what "consistent damage" would be.

ZaphasApr 25, 20143 votes

If Direction 1 was chosen, and his Q's AoE damage was lowered, do you think that Skarner would have any negative repercussions to his clear time in the jangle?

Edit: Also, Jag, yes, that damage loss would probably be fine with me even if it did hurt his jungle clear. My current beef with Skarner is that he doesn't have enough of an identity or things to do when his ult is down. The D1 Passive would allow him to have a solid function in teamfights after initiating.

RiotJagApr 25, 20146 votes

That's a good question. Honestly, the answer is probably yes, his clear time may be worse, but that's not something we're settled on yet and we can possibly tune his passive numbers around aiding his early jungle clears. To us it's more important that Skarner players like the overall direction that he's going, and we'll tweak stuff like clear speeds afterwards.

PenguinPaladinApr 26, 201411 votes

If jungle damage is the only problem, his Q could deal 150% damage to jungle minions (or whatever number is necessary). Like a reverse Hecarim.

KaredeApr 26, 20146 votes

That's a good question. Honestly, the answer is probably yes, his clear time may be worse, but that's not something we're settled on yet and we can possibly tune his passive numbers around aiding his early jungle clears. To us it's more important that Skarner players like the overall direction that he's going, and we'll tweak stuff like clear speeds afterwards.

Skarner has always had stellar clear times in the jungle. Currently he could be the fastest clear time in the jungle early. This is an outstanding characteristic for him to have, and if he loses this it will create many new problems for him to face.

Other tanky, cc oriented jungles have gap closing abilities or multiple interrupt/knockups/snares to make up for their lower damage output.(Amumu, Maokai, Sejuani)

Especially since he will not have a true gap-closer and must remain in melee range to do his work, his ability to level up quickly in the jungle and get to ganking at at least an equivolant level to the lane he is ganking is imperative. Skarner is not a bully in the jungle currently and gets pushed out quickly by many of the popular picks at the moment. Lowering his damage will exacerbate this weakness.

What if, instead of lowering the base damage on his Q, you lowered it's scaling? That way Skarner could still clear quickly (especially early), do pretty solid damage early game with his ganks (a problem early because of stickiness, which you are now addressing), and then he wouldn't snowball out of control into the late game. (He would still find great value in building tanky.) Remember, he currently has little to no burst damage.

We would still find value in building Triforce\Iceborn because they are based on auto attack damage, but the Q wouldn't make him carry like a real carry.

To sum up quickly - taking away damage on Skarner seems extremely scary to me. He does not do great early damage before scaling and items, but his jungle on the multi-creep camps helps him get ahead stat-wise (level-wise) as long as he isn't shoved out of the jungle. This enables him to take a beating which offsets the necessity to be in melee range. Take away scaling, but please do not take away jungle clear speed. This is his one true strength right now.

I know that you mentioned that clear times are easier to tweak. Moving forward, I feel that it's very important to not create new gigantic problems for a champ with a whole list of them already. Slowing his jungle clear would be a very, very big problem for this champion to deal with, and the replacement of power would need to be gigantic to offset this.

Maelstrom51Apr 26, 20147 votes

This response really worries me.

Killing Skarner's damage does not bring back how the old Skarner felt, it merely pushes him to the other end of the "not Skarner" spectrum.

The old Skarner was both a sticky champion and a strong duelist. It seems like you're wanting to take away half his identity either way.

ProfDrDeathApr 25, 20144 votes

Also prefer direction 1. I'm not even sure he'd need to do bonus damage with it, his Q and high base AD are doing enough damage over time to make it stick.

I hope you're not lowering the base AD on top of that. Prefer having high-ish base AD and the passive only stunning shortly.

Will the bonus AS be moved back to W? Or will he don't get to keep it at all? Dislike the idea of having Q stack MS a bit...would rather keep the AS if it doesn't conflict with his power budget. Or, if you're removing the AS from his kit altogether, can you give him at least a bit higher base AS? Reducing Q's CD by AA-ing rewards you for building AS, and he kind of needs some attack speed to be able to jungle efficiently.

RiotJagApr 26, 20148 votes

The current idea is that he retains the AS bonus on Q and gains the MS boost on top of that.

Potato JesusApr 26, 20142 votes

If that's the case will Skarner's W movement speed be lowered? Because that would seriously hurt his ganking power.

RiotMorelloApr 26, 20147 votes

I don't think unless it's needed - have to check balance. Currently not on the plan, but testing would have to dictate.

I think the CD could come down though, since he'd lose the CDR passive.

ShinRaigekiApr 26, 20145 votes

Honestly I wish Riot would segregate the speed from the shield, it feels sad when an ADC can pop your barrier in one hit most of the time (if not two) forcing you to flash to catch them.

Skarner just has problems in nearly every area of his kit unlike many of the top champions who got a bit of everything (cough, Ziggs)

LouisLeGrosApr 26, 20148 votes

That is on top of it being a ramping speed boost that just feels bad. Look at other peoples that fill similar roles. Udyr gets instant speed boost, Volibear gets instant speed boost, Eve gets an instant speed boost. Not having a dash or jump or other similar type of mobility is difficult for melee champions in this game, when you only have a "go fast" button that doesn't even make you feel fast when you initially press it is disappointing since pretty much every other champion that you would pick for that role would get the instant boost.

Potato JesusApr 25, 201414 votes

I'll miss the old passive, but at least his q spam is the same.

I would rather have the first passive rather than the second one, because I feel that Skarner should be a champ in everyone's face, a nightmare to get chased by, and gives the ability to stay tanky while shred. The second choice would work a lot better if he was a laning champion, giving him sustain he needs to stay in lane, but doesn't do a lot in teamfights, as he won't be able proc the heal when his ult is active. Love the Q buff though, but if the old passive is getting moved to Q, the ult CD would have to be almost cut in half to be in par with ww ult. One thing about the first passive is that Braums will be a lot more useful as teammates will be able to stun the target as well, so it should be a lot stronger than Braums or it will fall shy of greatness.

I like it, miss the old passive, but happy to see changes (although i hope the cd for abilities are worth the switch)

Phoenix Kotori Apr 25, 20147 votes

As someone who loves skarner and played him since S2, I really agree with this post. As I'd miss the passive, but don't want to see Skarner stay in this state.

ArchainisApr 25, 20145 votes

I wouldn't worry about it too much. When you think about it, you could kinda treat Skarner's old passive like "X% cdr while in battle" and the problem with base cdr is that you might as well have a lower cooldown in the first place.

There would be the "charging up an ult" aspect to be missed, but since jungle creeps let you auto them, unless you didn't clear camps between ganks, you'd pretty much always get the same amount of cooldown discount anyway. I'm confident compensation coodlown reductions will take this into account.

RiotRiot ScruffyApr 26, 201414 votes

This is right. We are planning on base Cooldown reductions for w e and r to make up for the loss of passive.

RiotMorelloApr 26, 20147 votes

Oops! Yes, I forgot to mention this. My bad!

ZaphasApr 26, 201413 votes

Oh, Morello. Super important question. ATM on live Skarner, if you E somebody, they get the mark leftover from when Skarner's E had the heal component.

Can you guys remove that? Because putting a mark on somebody that literally does nothing is kinda shoddy worksmanship, if you think about it, and could be confusing to newer players.

RiotMorelloApr 29, 20148 votes

Good catch - this is a bug and should be fixed!

PaperMache7Apr 29, 201415 votes

Since we're on the subject of things that made sense in his old kit, but are now outdated can we talk about the Q a little? This is a copy paste from a post I made soon after the rework btw.

Why didn't his Q receive the proper QOL changes for removing the slow on it? Right now unless you're standing right on top of them enemies can just walk out of the Q because of its slow animation and low range. Hecarim's Q in comparison deals damage instantaneously around him and has the same range. So perhaps it would be a good idea to increase it's range by maybe 100 units.

Not only that but why does it still have a weak first cast if the slow is gone? Design wise that was the whole reason it couldn't be full power from the start and it still having one seems unnecessary.

Finally why can't he hold his Q stacks longer? Keeping them up without the permaslow is quite harder not to mention since it now has the AS speed steroid it hurts his clearing a little, because you can't really go from one camp to another without setting yourself up for it. Again the reason he couldn't hold it long was to add counterplay due to the permaslow, with that gone he should be able to hold them much longer.

KaredeApr 26, 20145 votes

This is right. We are planning on base Cooldown reductions for w e and r to make up for the loss of passive.

Currently his passive makes his Ult and incredible tool. With blue buff and a jungle to clear, I can gank with an ult, clear the jungle quickly, and basically be ready to go with the ult again. I can easily get 40~ auto attacks before the cooldown is ready. I would always have it ready after a full jungle clear. The change in his ult cooldown should be significant.

The change to W and E are trickier. Currently, we have to pick if we are going to use the shield to engage or during the gank - we cannot use it twice a fight until longer fights. The E is also a one trick pony. This is including the passive we currently have. 1 or 2 seconds will not offset the loss of the passive.

TimjinApr 26, 20145 votes

I imagine that they will probably shave about 20 seconds off of his ult, which would account for 40 autos on non champion targets (20 on champs)

FogglesApr 26, 201413 votes

I'm currently favoring Direction 2, not because it sounds that great (I'd rather keep his current passive), but because I feel he'll lose part of his playstyle with Direction 1. I'm worried that shifting too much of his power into his CC will kill his dueling potential. He's always felt like a hybrid damage fighter with very high CDR scaling, but removing his damage will just shift him into more of a tank role than he already is. I guess a lot of it comes down to the numbers, and I'm sure either could be balanced to make him feel good. If Direction 1 can be done while keeping his identity as a strong fighter, then I'm all for it.

Maelstrom51Apr 26, 201412 votes

I am an avid (old) Skarner player and I agree.

Adding more CC and gutting his damage does not make him feel like Skarner again, it just pushes him to the other end of the "not Skarner" spectrum.

Skarner was both sticky and a duelist. Killing the duelist side of him is not the solution.

RiotMorelloApr 29, 20149 votes

This was the risk I'm worried about. I think it'd be more available to make him both (ala Udyr) if not for the very hard-engage ult.

I'd imagine Skarner in Direction 1 is still a good duelist, but likely not Udyr-good. I think it's hard to validate the strengths/weaknesses with the ult and that pattern. Top 25% of duelists, maybe, but not top 2%.

BikohonessApr 29, 20147 votes

First off, many thanks to Morello (and other reds) for engaging in this discussion.

Even with 119 champions (including Braun), the top 2% is only 2.38 champions. I think the only time that Skarner was in the top 2% of duelists was URF mode, and I don't think that counts. :-)

I'm not gonna lie, I am extremely concerned about this damage nerf. Less damage means longer fights, which means more mana spent.

Right this moment, if you give rework Skarner a couple of items and put him in a duel against a manaless bruiser (also with a couple of items) he will lose in a prolonged fight because he is unable to burn them down before he runs out of mana. It feels like a damage nerf with current mana costs is just going to make this situation worse.

Please consider adding mana and/or health sustain to the stun (like Kennen's passive)

Kuronok2Apr 26, 201412 votes

Scruffy and **Morello **

Since i think the D1 will be picked for Skarner i'm a little worried about something.

Right know Skarner is a mix of tank and fighter and he is able to dish a good amount of sustained damage while being able to endure a little more than some other champions, but he is not that tanky and can't do damage equal as some other bruisers (like Darius for example). My concern is that following the D1 and taking away some of his damage in order to add more CC to his kit, you guys will ended up turning him into a new Sejuani or Maokai . These champs have a good amount of CC and are able to tank a lot of damage middle to late game, but they rely on their team following them because they have like no damage. You guys know better than me that the tank junglers are very unappreciated right now and totally out of the meta. If he becomes a utility tank with very little damage (and horrible clear times) he will be still out of the meta and probably won't be picked.

Using Sejuani as example again, she has a lot of CC and her kit is actually fun to use, but her clear times are so bad and the fact that she can't fight anyone make it very hard to choose her over any other jungler even with all her CC. When it comes to TFing she just walks around pretending she is dealing damage. I hope Skarner doesn't become just a CC machine without ANY capability of fighting (his ult is already very bad for him alone, only helping him if you have someone of your team together). Do you guys have any opinion about this?

PS: Just to make it clear, i like to play the current Skarner

RiotMorelloApr 29, 20146 votes

Good post. A couple things to this;

There's a concept I like to talk about that's "trends vs truths" - that is, that a character might not be strong right this second for contextual reasons (hard-engage fighters are strong right now, but could be strong in other known contexts. I think Amumu or Maokai are these types...it's unlikely we'd buff them to compete, as we'd have to make them good duelists to do that.
I don't think we're looking to full-tank Skarner in Direction 1. We are looking to give him more CC and stickiness, but his time to kill might be a bit slower. This is how you allow someone to interact and respond when running isn't an option. If you can't fight, and you can't run, then there's not a lot the character can add to the game other than "he's overpowered" or "he's weak." The additional time for him to kill allows collapses and team-oriented moves to help, as Skarner isn't going to be great at getting away.

Remember the CC also has + damage on it, it's just more back-loaded - it turns on a little slower overall in a fight. I think tanky fighters can do good damage, they just can't do it quickly

HigeRApr 29, 20141 votes

uhm it seems like you overlooked his last part... there's a good amount of people who like current skarner =/ you think that current skarner is toxic for the game as well and must be changed? or are you just trying to stop old Skarner players from ranting??

I really like his current kit as well u.u (he's a crazy support xD) and moving his kit a bit inside is gonna take away his current crazy-ass slow/nuke, I wouldn't be up for that but I think we're a minority here, what do you think Morello?

Sightless66Apr 29, 20146 votes

Well, they don't think new Skarner is toxic to the game. I guarantee you of that. He's currently in a balanced state, and he's certainly not forcing any other champions to note be played. He can be countered at any stage of a fight if an enemy plays well. Not toxic.

That said, he's not really anything right now. Not toxic, but also not really interesting. There are some players who enjoy him, but there are fewer than who used to enjoy old Skarner. They've lost a good deal of the old players without reattracting some of the ones who used to like Skarner but stopped playing him after the really frustrating ultimate nerf. For the vast majority of players, it has failed to be interesting or engaging, and considering that this includes the majority of the people who used to play him who Riot was trying to appeal to with the rework, it's a bit of a problem.

As for taking the slow away: unlikely? Assuming option 1 gets taken, I don't see what they'd need or want to do that. They've given him sticking power, and they're taking damage away. I don't see why they'd fill the goal of increasing sticking power and shifting him towards CC by removing CC from his kit. Wouldn't make sense.

RiotMorelloApr 30, 20149 votes

Mostly this - some players like things, and some players hate them. Changes inherently choose what to optimize.

Toxicity is not the only reason for change - how do we answer the Skarner players who were upset that we removed his identity? It's a tough call.

HigeRApr 30, 20141 votes

I see and agree that Skarner players are upset and that somehow you need to cater to them since their champ was taken away, though my point is that Skarner today is balanced as sightless said and I doubt you'll rollback to old Skarner and start balancing from there... I'm guessing here though, but a stun every few attacks is a quite powerful form of CC (not to mention it might tiptoe with Braum) so given this increase of power you'd need to nerf him somewhere else CC-wise right? I mean, 60% slow plus haste/shield and now 2 Stuns on a kit seems pretty powerful =/

That's a point I'd rather have in another thread, but really, Skarner's utility is pretty high, maybe not Leona high (nothing beats 2 stuns and a snare xD) but high nonetheless, and by the suggested passives you kind of agree, though, what Skarner players want is more CC ._.

I would think that Skarner could use some tweaks on top of any changes you have planned for him, for example his ult ends abruptly and sometimes you keep running back as the enemy is freed creating distance you don't want. Also you can't autoattack during your ult, meaning you can't proc your passive... with new passive 1 it might be alright, you don't wannna stack stuns (unless it increased your ult's active time...) but with new passive 2 it seems only logical to heal when the enemy is supressed, not after.

I trust in that you'll find a good spot for Skarner though and turning him into a poison champ would be interesting as well, what I'm saying is just don't scrap your advance on him up until today, please!

Locke64Apr 30, 20145 votes

That reminds me, can we roll back the buff to E's slow? It really didn't need to be more powerful. It just needed more uptime. Put that power somewhere useful, like going with direction 1 without the Q damage nerf, or better yet adding a mark consumption effect to E that extends CC.

sleepyj101Apr 30, 20146 votes

Hopefully you answer better than the old Karma players (IE not at all) hashtagstillbutthurt

RiotMorelloApr 30, 20144 votes

Yeah - we've done a lot to manage new ways for us to get our heads wrapped around the monumental work of reworks. I know Karma was rough since we were still trying to get a better strategy :(

Admiral PenguinApr 26, 201412 votes

I think the problem with Skarner right now isn't so much his passive (although seeing it replaced with one of these is totally fine), but that he doesn't really have an identity and that his kit is essentially the same as Udyr, but crappier.

Passive number 1 is an alright and interesting passive, but it also just isn't as effective as other single-target stuns in the game. To go back to the Udyr comparison, Bear stance does Skarner's W and passive 1 at the same time with no ramp up period.

To continue with this theoretical "passive 1" kit, moving the cdr to his Q AND having it give MS along with AS brings with it a whole slew of problems. We end up with one ability that does 3 things all at the same time. That sounds like a nightmare to keep balanced AND feel good to use at the same time.

You also plan to lower Q's damage when doing that, which is seriously going to hurt his clear time, especially if passive 1 doesn't do damage. Already his clear time isn't really all that great AND it's mana hungry.

Passive 2 is an alright direction too. Giving him more damage moves him more into the damage-fighter spectrum, which I find to be an area of skarner that is pretty effective. Skarner right now supposedly does more damage than he used to, but we all really know that isn't the case. Losing his ability to stick to a target really lowered his ability to maintain sustained dps compared to what he used to do, which actually inadvertently lowered his damage without actually reducing any numbers.

Anyways, Passive 2 would help alleviate this problem and award Skarner for managing to stick to a target long enough to build up the stacks for a burst of damage, acting as a sort of finisher. Heck, in drawn out fights it would even heal him to allow him to keep fighting, synergizing well with his shield.

Overall I think the real problem with Skarner is the fact that counter play against him is extremely binary. The main counterplay is evade him long enough to destroy the shield and then just kite him forever. The ramp up period on the speed boost from W only further emphasizes this, especially since you're using half of your shield duration just trying to get the maximum speed boost and reach your target.

An idea I have for alleviating this is to just make the shield last longer with a smaller speed boost. Instead of 16-32% I'm thinking like 12-20%, but the shield lasts 8-10 seconds instead, sort of like Nautilus. Also the MS boost doesn't ramp up. This makes the ability more consistent and addresses the problem of Skarner just barreling out of the fog of war like a freight train with little reaction time from the opponent. Granted, the counterplay to this is still just as binary, but overall it feels better for the Skarner player.

To sum up, both of these passives seem pretty cool, but neither really address the main problem here with Skarner: his identity. The stun passive causes him to lose out on a lot of other things that are core to what Skarner is/was and don't really help him stand out from other fighters that do the same thing as him, namely Udyr. Passive 2 is a good direction for pushing him more into the damage end. Heck, he already has a strong multi-target slow and a Suppression drag attack. Overall though counterplay against him is pretty binary and he doesn't seem to bring anything, outside of his ultimate, to the table. The areas you should be looking at are giving him a kit that better meets the fantasy Skarner players want and I changing the passive + giving Q a MS buff aren't really going to solve that dilemma. Plus 3 effects on Q is just silly.

Al3xnApr 26, 201411 votes

I know I'm in the minority but I've recently started to play Skarner top and have found him pretty fun to play. Personally if I wanted to be selfish I would choose the 2nd option as I feel like it would fit my own playstyle with him more and is a much better passive that would work well for him in the top lane as it would provide the sustain which I feel like is his main issue top.

However if I were choosing to restore his 'identity' I would definitely choose the 1st option. My only concern with choosing that would be that the reduced damage on his Q would gut his ability to be played in the top lane, I guess it would be dependent on the passive bonus damage.

So my main question really is what is your opinion on Skarner top, and are you considering it when balancing Skarner? And what impact do you think each of the two options would have on top lane Skarner?

MorningbellApr 25, 20146 votes

Easily the first one, it's already established that Skarner fans don't want him to just do damage and scale. Another form of CC and a DoT would let him feel a lot better about going more tanky and forsaking Trinity/Lizard Elder. Additionally, his main job is his ultimate. Being tankier will allow his whole kit to be more synergistic and satisfying.

Maelstrom51Apr 26, 201414 votes

Oh god no. His main job is not his ultimate. That's one ability that non-skarner players get way too hung up on.

Skarner is (or used to be) a sticky duelist early and mid game, and an initiator and disruptor late game. He was a scary threat not just for his CC, but because if you let him continue to attack he would do massive damage to your team.

Giving him additional CC while killing his damage through Q nerfs is not going to make him feel like the old Skarner that we miss, it will push him to the other end of the "not Skarner" spectrum.

Guitar SoloApr 26, 20143 votes

I like the direction of poison, but the thought of a stun over a stacking thresh level slow seems weird

I'm on board for a utility skarner over a fighter. I expect to do damage inevitably not with strength

ArafuinApr 26, 201410 votes

I feel like there are tons of ulity tanks out there, See; Sejuani Nautilus Maokai Malphite Rammus ..

I always felt like skarner was a nice hybrid between utility and damage. I have so much fun playing him... These utility tanks always feel really dull which skarner is not! And I hope Riot's not going to ruin the way I feel about Skarner at this point.