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Lets face it riot, Sejuani needs help

Freljordan··2 votes·1,400 views

so I am a very big fan of sejuani. loved her from the first time I played her, worth every bit of ip. but then carry jungles became popular to the point that tank jungling was just a bad idea. why? because carry jungles could deal far more damage, often times with a pretty good amount of cc themselves. they also have better clear, better sustain, their ganks aren't so reliable on landing 1 ability, and they can counter jungle the balls off of anybody who dares to play a tank. sejuani was and is (unless theres someone im missing) the worst victim of this. she has literally no sustain, shes got pretty bad clear, low movement speed, shes insanely item reliant, her ganks are almost entirely reliant on hitting her predictable/easy to dodge q, shes very easily counterplayed, and she has very little damage against champions unless you get ahead as her. that is basically the only way to do anything noticeable to be a substantial threat on a team: pray that you manage against all odds to get ahead.

don't get me wrong, I don't think she sucks, she has a lot of potential. Her late game is godly as a tank, and her damage against squishies is pretty good once she gets to that point. shes decent at keeping with people (assuming she lands her q) and if she can land her ult right she gives her team a great initiate. I just think shes outclassed so much, even by other tank jungles. Take amumu for example:

amumu's passive is an offensive one, lowering targets mr with his auto attacks. its pretty good, its a decently high mr reduction (falls of late game). sejuani's passive increases her armor and gives her slow-effect reduction, starting terrible but getting pretty good at the end.

Q's: amumu's and sejuani's q's are very similar, both are skillshot gapclosers that cc the target, but amumus can be blocked by minions, isnt aoe, isnt as good for waveclearing, and has to land for him to close the gap. However, the range is almost double sejuani's, it has a shorter cooldown at almost all ranks, its a stun, and its much longer lasting. also, it has a much higher overall damage at all ranks.

W's: I find these a little bit harder to compare, because amumu's deals far lower base damage than sejuani's and will use more mana overall, his does percent health damage and since its toggle he doesn't have to worry about cooldowns.

E's: these I cant really compare too well either, because they are nothing alike, but I will shoot for it anyways. sejuani's e is a low damage slow that scales up from meh to ouch as the game goes. amumu's is a bit more focused for jungle clear early game, but its still good. it has a fairly long cooldown, but the damage is pretty good and its cooldown is reduced when he takes auto attacks, including minion agro. on top of that, he takes a tiny bit reduced damage, but its not really that noticeable.

R's: there is one key factor between these that makes them unique from eachother. Sejuani's is thrown, while amumu is in the center of his. sejuani's has a range of 1175 and stuns for 1.25-1.75 seconds. if it reaches the end of its range, it shatters and slows by 90% for the same duration instead. Amumu's is a 550 radius focused around him, so he has to get into the group of enemies before casting it. both have the same base and scalings at all ranks, but amumu's stuns for 2 seconds at all ranks. The 2 things I think makes it better than sejuani's is that it has a longer duration at all ranks, and if he misses his q, he can just wait until he hits it again to cast.

personally, I think that sejuani would be perfectly fine if they gave her something for better waveclear and/or sustain, that way shes not so ridiculously and easily counterjungled until late game. One thought, make it so the permafrost passive on her e actually does something aside from letting her slow them by activating her e. maybe make it lower their mr by a little. any thoughts?

9 Comments

ChickenWrap3 votes

The only help Sej needs is for people to realize that AP Sej isn't troll and to take it as a serious pick. It's an amazing choice, and she offers great damage, engage, and utility.

DefenderOfFaith1 votes

I tried Seljuani when she was free to play and crossed her off my evaluation list as "don't buy".

As a trial, I got into nowhere near the detail as the OP did, except I was left with a feeling of "this champion isn't fun."

Clearly the OP is a Seljuani advocate, so SOMEONE thinks she is fun. There were a lot of Amumu comparisons. He is my favourite jungler (along with J4). Do you really think its a good idea to compare her to Amumu?

I think she deserves her own unique 'class'. But I'll leave it to the Seljuani fans to flesh out what that should be.

Freljordan1 votes

first off, she actually can be fun, but only if you do well with her and get ahead, which is what my point was. its really hard to actually get ahead. honestly, if someone knows how vulnerable she is to counter jungle and does so, shes 90% of the time going to feed, or at least be completely useless the entire game. for the second thing you said, I compared her to amumu because I think hes the most similar, and also to show that amumu is basically a better version of her.

Pidgeon Jones1 votes

Quill Coat will fix a lot of your "needs items" issues. If you want tanky engage Sej, I recommend trying that build path, it worked incredibly well for me.Sejuani

Freljordan1 votes

well ya, getting that is a given, since you need that to get the item 3207 anyways. but that's not enough to keep her from being behind. literally having 1 buff stolen can cripple you in every way for at least half the game a lot of times. especially if that buff is blue buff. I say shes very item reliant because she has no significant damage or tanky abilities/passives without getting lots of hp. literally, her only defensive ability is the small amount of tenacity and armor from her passive (which does actually scale up decently in the case of the tenacity).

Pidgeon Jones1 votes

Was mainly pointing out that since the edition of quill coat, a lot of tankier junglers have not only a faster clear time but a smoother, better game in general, especially considering the cheap price of quill coat. If you suspect that your red is going to be stolen or contested (since realistically you don't have much reason starting anything other than blue on Sej, unless you're trying some weird level 2 cheese) have the closest side-laner drop their trinket at 1:25ish there and then rush to lane. (better on blue side cause support can go and your ADC wont miss any CS, as opposed to top lane possibly missing 1 or 2 minions) If they contest, rush their red and trade off. A lot of times this can work heavily in your favor because you can get 3 buff timers and set up plays when the time comes on all of your buffs given the right team coordination.

I do agree however, she could use a little bit of help, even if it was slight. She's on the brink of being incredibly viable, in my opinion, given the right team comp.

I Main Swain1 votes

(im the one who posted fyi, I was just on my brothers account on accident)

I do agree very much with what you say, and I always ask my bot/top lane to ward my red at 1 min, but I just feel like she needs something to help her recover from something like a buff steal aside from just getting good ganks off and earning assists. She needs some for of sustain ability, whether it increases defensive stats, increases damage/clear in some way, or heals her. and to what you say about the quill coat, I agree that it makes it very much easier, but it also isn't enough to help her and other champs in similar situations out of their rough spot completely.

NUT IN ME PLEASE1 votes

Sejuani is a Late game Champ. In order to be useful, like most tank junglers, you gotta build tank. Zac is the same way. Sejauni has great late game scaling with her Q and W. And ganks with her E is amazing. Build full tank with max CDR and you can have your W up forever. Her ult is hard to land, but in my opinion, is much safer than an amumu ult because you can use it to stop chasing or chase somebody while amumu must put himself at more risk. I'll recommend he, espcially with the new Quill Coat. She might need a nerf to her Q/E and a buff to her movement speed, mana costs and cooldowns.

I Main Swain1 votes

(im the one who posted fyi, I was just on my brothers account on accident)

that reminds me, forgot to mention her mana costs. its crippling to not have blue buff, even late game its incredibly annoying. I personally don't agree about her e and q. E because she A) has to damage them first with auto's or an ability and B) its got a fairly short duration and the cooldown is kinda long. on top of that, its a high slow, but that's about where all the slows in the game are, and most last that long or longer. the q I disagree with because its got a short range and long cooldown, along with not being very difficult to dodge or juke. Champions like amumu have similar cc that basically if they land it you die or burn flash. hers is often a 1 time use in a gank unless the ganked person is trying to fight.

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