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Lee Sin is broken, and riot won't do a think about it

kasmanjae·3/7/2015, 7:20:13 PM·2 votes·1,012 views
Why Lee Sin is Truly OP and Broken [Analysis] * /r/leagueoflegends

Introduction: Unfortunately League of Legends is plagued by Lee Sin. That's probably one of the most simple ways to put it. In this thread I will be elaborating on exactly why and how Lee Sin is overpowered, for too many times before now people have gone on to say many relevant reasons of Lee Sin being overpowered and in need of a rework if not deletion but the justification is missing or the ties to the bigger picture aren't in place. I will be listing the various reasons why Lee Sin is inherently broken, elaborating on why this is important, how it makes him more powerful while making everything else obsolete, put into different sections. If you think Lee Sin is overpowered or not overpowered, please continue reading, because many of you don't know the real reasons as to why Lee Sin is ridiculously rampant and powerful, more so than what people think. Thank you for reading. If this is too much for you too read, read the conclusion, watch the video and read the explanation. Table of Contents: Lee Sin's role Lee Sin's Effectiveness in Winning Lee Sin's power history (nerfs) Lee Sin's Skill Floor vs. Skill Cap Video and Video Evidence Explanation Conclusion Lee Sin's role: Lee Sin can effectively play anything but marksmen. I'll rephrase that. Lee Sin can effectively and arguably play anything but a ranged attack damage carry. Arguably, because with Lee Sin's passive and ratios, someone could make a case that Lee Sin could double as a melee attack damage carry, if not that, as an assassin or high damage build he is certainly an attack damage carry, because he deals attack damage (magic damage on E) and is a carry. Support? Played in a professional OGN match either this season or last season near the end of the OGN season. Middle? Lee Sin middle is a thing, and a very viable counter pick to Akali. Lee Sin top is nothing new, Lee sin is very popular both top and jungle. So, there's a lot of questions and points here off the bat. Why can Lee sin play almost everything effectively? To be blunt, because he has a lot in his kit. Most of the time the terms overloaded is mentioned it's a weird statement, because being overloaded doesn't necessarily mean being a FOTM pick, and a kit is suppose to make a champion look strong or be strong, that's what it's there for, along with any recent champion having lots in their kit, because they're newer, and more interaction or 'depth' with champions makes them not only more fun, but unique. In regards to Lee Sin, his kit is a unique type of overloaded. Towering above other champions as a popular pick, Lee Sin's kit stands side by side with Lee Sin, this kit offers high mobility and the ability to duel, while also offering sustain. It's not that simple, though, that's a simplified version. Lee Sin has two CC's, which can be used as peel or to kill because they both deal a copious amount of damage, Lee Sin has two dashes, along with the same CC that can be used to slow someone for chasing them and killing them, Lee Sin has a shield for himself and an ally, Lee Sin has sustain after pressing his shield if he so decides that he needs it, while also having a passive that helps him in spacing out his abilities for prolonged fights. Not only does Lee Sin have high mobility, with sustain as a high mobility duelist, and brings CC to ganks, but he is effectively played as a burst assassin or a prolonged sustained fighter. Let me repeat that. Lee Sin has the ratios and kit to burst someone within the duration of about a second, and at the same time, has the same kit that allows him to be a really good prolonged sustained fighter, due to his passive, chaining abilities, and his iron will, which is his sustain and needs to be hitting people to be healing him. As an energy champion, he is one of the few that are good at both burst and prolonged fights. The case for Lee Sin being perfectly balanced doesn't look very hopeful. Lee Sin's Effectiveness in Winning A great game designer and game philosopher once said that during the reign of Riven, (Era season 3, flavor of the month, used in LCS/ogn games and worlds) Riven was a skill enhancer. I suppose he didn't expand specifically on why that was, but most flavor of the month champions are just that, skill enhancers. Flavor of the month champions or 'overpowered' ones are the ones that do what others in their role do, just a little bit better. Though in Lee Sin's case that'd be a massive understatement. The statement was that Riven is a unique skill enhancer in that she has a strange skill floor to effectiveness in winning formula. Playing Riven is hard, but as soon as people learn to auto attack between attacks, she becomes so easy to be highly effective in winning lane, killing people and winning the game. Lee Sin is in a similar predicament. The skill floor to Lee Sin isn't high at all, and his mechanical requirement isn't as high as proposed either, which I shall address in the video section. Effectively, Lee Sin when built as an assassin has too much mobility and tankiness in the form of mitigations, and when built as a tank he has too much mobility and damage through the rest of his kit. One can stare in awe at the grandeur of power that Lee Sin presents, he truly is a paradigm of power. Lee Sin is missing nothing in his kit. In terms of winning that obviously means a grand deal. Lee Sin has everything going for him in order to win, the only way he ever loses is because his team counter picked themselves or Lee Sin forgot that his abilities are always up and to use them. Lee Sin's soloqueue winrate and team winrate is only as low or as high as how often the team is uncarriable and how often Lee Sin forgets that all of his abilities are up because he has quintessentially unlimited resources, defenses, damage and dashes. One would do well to remember if discussing winrate, that Zed was a proclaimed God Tier middle pick in season 3 after all stars, and in solo queue he didn't have a win rate above 50%. Lee Sin fits every team composition well and has everything to be successful in any order of situations moreso than any other champion by a large magnitude which is moreover atmospherically astronomically anatomically dynamically deplorable. Lee Sin's power history (nerfs) Another point is how many times a champion has been nerfed. Such a notion is significant because if a champion has been nerfed multiple times and still strong it indicates a problem with the kit. Lee Sin is historically one of the most nerfed champions in League, and he's still a popular pick, has been for four whole seasons, and that's clearly an attribute, of how strong, powerful, unyielding and undying Lee Sin power- or kit, is. Lee Sin's prolific nature is a testament to how ridiculously flawed in concept Lee Sin is. Why should everyone have to cater to LCS or Lee Sin? Why can't we play Garen and Ryze and get the same results or better than Lee Sin? That's unbalanced design and furthermore favoritism. Lee Sin's Skill Floor vs. Skill Cap Lee Sin's skill floor is actually way lower than some people make it out to be, and his skill cap isn't very high either, though I will expand on that in section 5. Lee Sin's skill cap doesn't matter when someone can play him half adequately or at the skill floor and still be a massive benefactor to the team. That's nothing short of what people term 'freelo'. This is a post from a professional League player https://www.facebook.com/fnaticCyanide/posts/632919483434422?stream_ref=10 Note the quotation. "Personally I found the best way to climb ladder is to spam a hero or two that are strong but not permabanned" Lee Sin fits that description. Lee Sin isn't permanently banned and he's a frequent pick, he's actually way stronger than people think he is but they'll try to defend him because "winrate" even though as previously discussed, he only loses due to factors outside of his control coupled with the player not being innately good. A team that has Lee Sin has everything going for them at all points in the game, the Lee Sin player then only loses because he got boosted to places he didn't belong, because Lee Sin is a skill enhancer. Lee Sin doesn't have a high skill cap either, he has a small amount of potential and he isn't hard to play at the skill cap because of that. Playing Lee Sin at the skill cap is like playing Garen at the skill cap, only Lee Sin is many times more conducive towards winning than Garen is. Which is the only thing that matters. If in theory, Lee Sin's skill cap was harder than climbing the highest peak on earth with nothing but boxer briefs, while once you reach the top, also assassinating someone down below at 2800 yards away (this is not counting distance from top to bottom, this is horizontal yards) with a sniper rifle, then having to kill someone at that same range with a bow, then having to kill multiple people that are master swordsmen with the same sword, then having to best multiple of the world's best knife fighters in a fight to the death, then having to do the same for every weapon ever made against multiple adversaries without dying or being crippled, it doesn't matter. Because you do not need to be anywhere near that skill level to be effective enough to be a huge winning factor for the team, and that's only in theory, because Lee Sin's skill cap actually isn't high. Video and Video Evidence Explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DohjagBcSo&feature=youtu.be No discussion of balance on League would be complete without video evidence of how it all comes together, because in the end, it is how this game functions that determines many other things and not the other way around. I apologize for the video quality. I'm not a Lee Sin main, I've played maybe about 10 games total with Lee Sin throughout my time on League. I am a mechanically challenged player, I am extremely weak mechanically, this can be shown through anyone if they were to watch my hand movements, movements in game or were to watch me in stream. Unfortunately my mechanics are very subpar, even compared to a silver, my mechanics probably are in bronze. The only testament to any success I have ever had is knowledge. Despite this, look at what happened in that video. As mentioned I haven't played Lee Sin much, but he doesn't even require mechanical skill. The 'high skill cap' or 'mechanically complex' aspects that people refer to when they talk about Lee Sin are nothing but antic exaggerations bordering on duplicity or unfortunate ignorance. After playing Lee Sin for a few times he was so easy to understand mechanically. Most of these clips I just spam buttons, i just press a bunch of buttons all at once sometimes and I still destroy people. I'm a tactifully masterful genius when it comes to understanding this game and all the abhorrent natures of solo queue with the strategy that comes in solo queue, but I should not be successful with Lee Sin if he had any mechanical intensity whatsoever. I have a computer that plays constantly at 10FPS, those recordings for those videos were around 40 FPS 720p and my computer almost died recording that, it was really difficult for my computer. I play on East Coast ping so I have always have 200+ ms, and all of those factors greatly mitigate the ability to perform mechanically well. On 10fps, alongside 200+ms with a keyboard that only accepts 1 keystroke at a time, I can be mechanically successful with Lee Sin as a player that has no mechanics. That makes no sense. I smash my buttons and somehow a ward hop kill combination is successful. Did I have to calculate it you might ask? No, I knew I was Lee Sin so even Ryze couldn't compare to my might. I had no idea what I was doing in any of these clips, I only recently learned about mindgames being a scholar myself, but there's a clip in that video where Gosuqt flashes away from me after my auto targeted missile Q lands on him, and I R flash him into my team so he dies. I didn't think that Sona ulti might happen, I didn't think he'd flash, I just knew "I'm Lee Sin and I'm unstoppable" so I press buttons and he died. When he flashed, all that went through my mind as the events unfolded infront of me was "Xspecial sends his regards, *****." I didn't even want to attack or kill or hurt Gosu, Gosuqt is a saint but I had no control in the moment, I paniced, hit a few buttons and Lee Sin was auto cruise autopilot. I have 0 mechanics and I still destroy people on Lee Sin, this is clear video evidence that Lee Sin Q is quintessentially a targeted ability, this is evidence that Lee Sin has no mechanics and his skill cap is nonexistent. The simple profound truth is that Lee Sin cannot be balanced if I- the mechanical equivalent to a senile 80 year old man that has never touched a computer and has Black Hole Tier 8 mechanics in real life- am successful with Lee Sin. I posted this video on Reddit and there was an instant 500+k views with tons of upvotes, with comments on the reddit thread and video, upvoted with many votes, such as "damn, didn't SEE a montage this good coming, gj old buddy old pal we're the best and everyone else is bad if they think Lee is anything but balanced" which are clearly blatant indications of elitism and misunderstanding of power which lend itself towards the problem that some people have when trying to defend Lee Sin, ironically, they are blind favoritism, pseudo elitism and the misunderstanding of reality as it were.

And her is another thing showing that riot won't do a thing about him

@nigerianlion Actually, when we nerf Lee, it causes a HUGE uproar. If I wasn't worried about what people thought we'd nerf him months ago 12:47am - 1 Jul 14

Just showing how riot won't fix a broken champ if you boohoo about it for a week

3 Comments

The Madzookeeper3/7/2015, 11:55:48 PM1 votes

one comment: lcs. lee sin doesn't win on teams at the highest level even remotely all of the time. he is not over powered, he is actually one of the most well-balanced champions in the game for what his purpose is. that he CAN play assassin/high damage doesn't mean that's the best way to play him. most of the time if you play a high damage lee sin at anything even nearing higher elo's you end up getting blown up. why? because people understand how to play the game better. as the game goes on lee sin's effectiveness always, always goes down. there is a very serious reason that he's built tanky in the LCS and at higher levels of play, and that's because he's not effective when built with damage. riot has seriously discussed reworking him. the outcry from the community was astoundingly high and convinced them that lee didn't actually need a rework. you're one person, and while your points have merit, they are hardly the be all end all of assessing him. you obviously don't like him, so your opinion is somewhat biased. i play him, but am not overly fond of him, and personally i hardly find him to be overpowered. fiora? she was broken with her ult before the nerf. being able to 1v4 or 1v5 and come out of it alive without any problems is broken. you would never in a million years be able to do that with lee sin. is jinx broken because she's a hyper carry? or trist? vayne? nasus? i'd argue nasus is far more broken than lee sin, simply because he becomes utterly oppressive late game where as lee's importance wanes very greatly as the game goes on.

but to go back to the LCS comment, if the people that quite possibly know the ins and outs of the game better than the developers don't pick him 100% the time when he's available, and don't often ban, i'm not entirely sure how valid your argument actually is.

just because something is strong doesn't mean it's broken, it just means it's strong.

kasmanjae3/8/2015, 6:27:16 PM1 votes

Lee sin beats Nashua top lane every time, he is too much of a lane bully to allow basis to get stack. Obviously you are only referring to higher elo's but anything below platinum he is overpowered. Riot is more than just the platinum and challenger players. He also is has very overpowered scaling and cooldown. If you haven't notice his ultimate scales more than nunu, nunu being at 1.5 of his ap, where Lee being 200 of his ad. And he also get life steal to outlast anyone on lane l, and his other skill go off of 180, & 90. He can burst someone like a fed shack without being fed of sustain in lane like a full leveled basis with lifesteal.

Also riot knows he need a nerf but too many pe I please didn't want to win lane without a broken champion. So after too many people boohoo ed about it they decided not too, why would they want to take away their own money.

The Madzookeeper3/12/2015, 4:42:16 AM1 votes

i can pretty easily destroy him in lane with fiora. have done so with things like nami and sona as well. yes, those were top lane. he isn't broken man. and no, his ult doesn't scale at 200 of his ad. or 20. or 2. it's his BONUS ad, i.e. only that which is built on him beyond what he normally has. with they way he's built most of the time that's very negligible damage. doesn't even remotely come close to someone like nunu or katarina, who are just silly to be frank. especially since kat builds such ridiculous amounts of AP in the first place.

lee sin is also very, very infrequently played anywhere but jungle. those other things are outlier picks, like taking fiora mid where she can absolutely beat the snot out of most ap mids (or even ad mids) early on, and then just laugh in their faces as she continually kills them as the game goes on. i have annihilated things like leblanc doing this. or you can take her bottom lane with braum and just laugh at the adc as you manage to stun lock them into death due to braum's passive. seriously, you can't balance a champion around the outliers because when people play correctly the outliers don't function. lee sin is not terribly viable if he's not tanky for the very simple reason that he's just to squishy. he dives in and tries to really damage someone in a team fight and he's built mainly damage he's dead. he won't even have time to do anything. you even see it in pro games where he's built full tank. he just gets blown up.

your problem is this, you don't like lee sin. you don't like that they made a champion that is based around mobility and can move around the map better than anyone else (save leblanc, katarina, rek'sai, shaco and bard when he comes out... the mobility champs of that nature are becoming more common, and each different), thereby making him a royal pain to catch and actually kill. simple solution? don't chase him after you run him off. sure, he's a lane bully early. so is renekton, but people never really complained about him, and he beats lee sin pretty easily. but what happens with pretty much all of those lane bullies if they don't get fed? they drop off. every single one of them, lee sin included. lee sin's kit is based on his utility, and because of the way he needs to be played to be effective, not just outlier effective or oh hey i'm ahead i can build some more damage effective but truly effective consistently, pretty much requires he be built tankier so he can be that initiator. if you've ever tried to build damage on lee sin when you're falling behind you're in for a very rude awakening. you're going to die. a lot. and you're going to be completely useless, because that isn't how he functions.

and sure, lee may beat nasus early, but guess what. there's still a timer on the game with nasus to where he becomes so ridiculous that he can one shot your carries. or four shot a turret. you can only slow down a nasus, you CAN stop a lee sin.